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Post by jmbsec on Sept 17, 2009 12:16:40 GMT
Beware if you've no virus protection on your computer, I've just been on the JMB website and yet again my virus alarms were activated.......... (a similar thing happened a couple of weeks ago) Thank fully my virus protection (Avast) has yet again safely isolated the virus from damaging my computer. Exploring how somebody appears to be fiddling with our site. Should be OK now. |
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Sept 17, 2009 13:37:38 GMT
With regards to the comment made by jmbsec "dodgy Vets" is it not the JMB that appoint the Vets onto the official measurers list - then if you are saying they are dodgy then that makes the JMB responsible. Simple. Surely your comment can be deemed as slander towards many vets - have you evidence of this?
In regards to the shortfall in finances - your Mem & Articles of Association should cover this.
If the JMB want to be Open - call a meeting.....
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Post by jmbsec on Sept 17, 2009 14:10:01 GMT
With regards to the comment made by jmbsec "dodgy Vets" is it not the JMB that appoint the Vets onto the official measurers list - then if you are saying they are dodgy then that makes the JMB responsible. Simple. Surely your comment can be deemed as slander towards many vets - have you evidence of this? In regards to the shortfall in finances - your Mem & Articles of Association should cover this. If the JMB want to be Open - call a meeting..... Cannot slander anybody in writing, but if you mean libel I think one has to have named the party to injure them. Thank you for your advice. Open - how can the JMB be more open? What is there to discuss at a meeting that cannot be asked here? If you want a meeting ask your society if they will instruct their steward to bring it up at a meeting of the stewards. |
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Post by fatcob on Sept 17, 2009 17:24:40 GMT
" If the cheats stop getting their big animals measured by dodgy vets or stop presenting ringers or changing animal's names then there will no chance of this situation occurring. If anybody was found guilty of presenting a ringer or name changing for remeasure purposes IMO they should be banned for a LONG time from the relevant show society and if I were the JMB I would refuse their business - that way they would not be able to do it again! |
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Post by hubba hubba on Sept 18, 2009 13:19:36 GMT
my connie got re called for measurement 3days b4 the rihs!!!!! 2mm over height.... gutted does not even come close, how do they exspect to get a horse under height that is on the bigger side to the correct height when he is fit and in show condition, now i have an amazing horse that will jump anythin that i can no longer compete as a m&m!!  so i feel ur pain not being able to compete!!! |
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halfpass
Happy to help....a lot
Return of the Dame
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Post by halfpass on Sept 18, 2009 15:34:15 GMT
Thats a intresting phrase "the bigger side to the correct height",
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Post by sageandonion on Sept 18, 2009 15:36:53 GMT
ajb sorry you had that upset just before you were to compete RIHS. Just in case you do not know and if your connemara is under seven and has not yet been given his Life Height Certificate, you are entitled to have him measured again for that Life Certificate and it might be worth you doing that if you believe he will measure in when not in show condition.
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Post by jmbsec on Sept 18, 2009 17:34:49 GMT
ajb sorry you had that upset just before you were to compete RIHS. Just in case you do not know and if your connemara is under seven and has not yet been given his Life Height Certificate, you are entitled to have him measured again for that Life Certificate and it might be worth you doing that if you believe he will measure in when not in show condition. If the re-m was an annual cert then, if at the next year's annual or full meas, the animal appeared to shrink into a different class, eg from 149.0 to 148.0, the Stewards would order another re-m. |
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Post by Guestless on Sept 18, 2009 23:12:27 GMT
If the re-m was an annual cert then, if at the next year's annual or full meas, the animal appeared to shrink into a different class, eg from 149.0 to 148.0, the Stewards would order another re-m. ..but perhaps earlier in the season before the pony is in show condition  |
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Post by sageandonion on Sept 19, 2009 17:40:44 GMT
And, if the pony does measure back in as before, you would have the advantage that he could not be recalled again so that may go a little way to make up for your disappointment this year.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Sept 19, 2009 22:14:01 GMT
my connie got re called for measurement 3days b4 the rihs!!!!! 2mm over height.... gutted does not even come close, how do they exspect to get a horse under height that is on the bigger side to the correct height when he is fit and in show condition, now i have an amazing horse that will jump anythin that i can no longer compete as a m&m!! so i feel ur pain not being able to compete!!! Didn't everyone's pony have to have a height cert/be measured prior to entry in the RIHS/NPS M&M WHP competition this year? (Irrespective of the time of year) I like Halfpass's comment and quote from you "the bigger side of the correct height"...................... ? |
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fredaf
Junior Member
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Post by fredaf on Sept 19, 2009 23:15:14 GMT
Thats a intresting phrase "the bigger side to the correct height", Brilliant! doesn't that sum up the problem, either the height is correct or not, and my guess is that if its bigger then just maybe its too big.  |
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Post by sageandonion on Sept 20, 2009 8:26:18 GMT
Why choose to look upon every slightly misuse of a phase as being sinister in order to make a nasty remark. The poster was simply saying her pony is very close or on the maximum height and in her opinion would measure in when not fit and muscled. That's her opinion and she is entitled. I hope her pony does measure back. I don't think people should be forced to think through everything they write and draft it several times for fear of being attacked. Please stop it.
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
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Post by Milliesmum on Sept 20, 2009 8:35:00 GMT
I do find the whole subject of measuring a little frustrating though, surely any animal measures what it measures! Only my opinion but wherever else a horse may put on condition/muscle or whatever, the wither stays the same? The only thing that could make a difference is the feet/shoes. Not wishing to single out any one person, but so many people talk about roughing an animal off to get it to measure in at a certain height, WHY? ? If it's good enough it'll win whatever height section its in! |
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Post by sageandonion on Sept 20, 2009 9:36:24 GMT
Well I actually agree with you Millismum on all counts and I don't understand the fuss at all. Ppersonally I think a pony/horse measures the same when and whatever and to be honest mine are too fat and are ridden all year round. However there are so many people who insist a pony is smaller when 'roughed off and, as I never get my ponies to that level of condition or lack of it, I am not in a position to disagree so must accept their opinion.
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Post by bubblyxx on Sept 20, 2009 10:40:12 GMT
my connie got re called for measurement 3days b4 the rihs!!!!! 2mm over height.... I haven't read the whole thread (15 pages!!) so this may have come up before - but to measure out at 2mm over ?  That is only twice the width of my pencil lead. I didn't realise that measuring horses could be soooooo accurate. Some system eh ? Especially with live animals. I'm sure it's all been tried / tested etc. But it amazes me . |
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Post by sageandonion on Sept 20, 2009 11:24:20 GMT
Frankly 2mm is tragic for this lady, a shave of a foot rasp I think.
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Post by tuppence on Sept 20, 2009 14:44:41 GMT
my connie got re called for measurement 3days b4 the rihs!!!!! 2mm over height.... I haven't read the whole thread (15 pages!!) so this may have come up before - but to measure out at 2mm over ? That is only twice the width of my pencil lead. I didn't realise that measuring horses could be soooooo accurate. Some system eh ? Especially with live animals. I'm sure it's all been tried / tested etc. But it amazes me . Yes, I must say this looks so unlucky. It is very difficult if you are an "ordinary" person having to stand up to a JMB official but I think I might have refused to take this measurement. If a horse goes over by 2cm then fair enough, it's never going to get in. But 2mm? I do think there is a system for getting ponies measured back down. Maybe it would be worth paying for a gold certificate next spring? |
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Post by Cefn farm Horses on Sept 20, 2009 16:52:11 GMT
jmbsec has finally come out with what sums up the problem with remeasuring annuals - you may measure this year on a recall with an annual and then take the the animal back for it's life and measures in - then he presto you are recalled. Why dont they just remeasure annuals when they are due for their full cert. Recall them yes, but on the 1st jan or after you have to measured in under remeasurement conditions simple. everyone happy. This is exactly the reason why two vets should be present on the measurement of a full cert, your choice and then the choice of the JMB. The system is fundamentally flawed. I have not seen many sticks with MM notches on either. Competitors who pay for the gold cert can be recalled by the stewards so why pay the £600.00 in the first place, you only protect yourself form objections by fellow competitors. The request for remeasurement on an Annual would expire anyway on the 31st December as the Annual Cert is only valid for a year, and therefore any request would only be valid during that cert validity period. I know jmbsec will disagree - but I am sure that a Judicial review would see it differently from the JMB as probably they would the whole rule book as issued by the JMB. The only way to stop this is fund**netly overhaul the system.
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Post by jmbsec on Sept 20, 2009 22:43:02 GMT
"Why dont they just remeasure annuals when they are due for their full cert. Recall them yes, but on the 1st jan or after you have to measured in under remeasurement conditions simple. everyone happy. "
Everybody? Your solution has been discussed here before. If you are the owner of the horse that is constantly placed behind the horse with an annual that has been called for re-m would you be happy to continue being placed behind it, incl at HOYS, only for it to measure out by a mile after 31st Dec? If the consensus answers no, we do not mind and the Member Society reps vote according to their members wishes then the rule changes.
Many horsegossipers tell us their horses grow significantly between 4 and 7yrs. If a horse was 153cm in January it might be 154cm by now and out of its class. In my naivety I think it unfair for a young horse to be immune to challenge because it might have grown, that's why it needs challenging! In your scenario the class rules would have to state, eg, not exceeding 153.0cm for 7yo+, but those under 7yo any ht as long it was no more than 153.0 as some stage during the year.
"This is exactly the reason why two vets should be present on the measurement of a full cert... "
Yes, I agree, if we could only work out the logistics and costs. The gold cert addresses this and the cost would plummet if people took it up. The JMB Stewards would only req the re-m of of a horse on a gold cert in exceptional circumstances (cannot think of any, maybe if shown to have been doped!).
"I know jmbsec will disagree - but I am sure that a Judicial review would see it differently from the JMB"
The JMB is not a public body and therefore cannot be subject to judicial review, but how do you think it would be viewed differently?
"fund**netly overhaul the system."
Let us see your proposals - could be part of your election manifesto. I believe you aired a proposal a couple of years ago during a dispute with the JMB but we never saw them.
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Post by hubba hubba on Sept 21, 2009 9:32:55 GMT
my horse did have his life height b4 qualifing for RIHS.... 52 horses got called for measurement ramdomly, as alot of horses had been going throught that were thought 2 be way over heighted!!! there are said 2 be doing it again next year AGAIN!!
i can asked 2 have my horse measured again at a cost of £600.00 if the horse get back under to his height i get the £600.00 back, if the horse still remains over height i lose the money!!
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Post by Rockstar on Sept 21, 2009 9:50:24 GMT
The argument for measuring during the season is one I have read with interest, Previously I would have agreed with the argument that horses measure bigger when they are fit and muscled up. However, my horse (Paschal High Flyer) was re-called and re-measured (he was measured for his life height in Essex - 15miles up the road from us!). His measurement in January straight out of the field was 158cms. his re-measurement a few weeks ago was 157.5cms ........
I am DEF not up for this re-measuring mid-season though, I dont think its fair and the stress we went through, even though we knew Fly isnt big, was horrible. To object to a horse weeks before HOYS (eg Colorado) as well is just downright nasty!! I for one dont think it is big so I dont think they wil have a problem, but having been there I know how stressful those few minutes are!
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Post by penny h on Sept 21, 2009 13:52:42 GMT
Aimbry Kymara measured 152.3cm within 10 minutes of the commencement of the proceedings today.
Like Fly he measured bigger in the winter (153cm).
We were not recalled but objected to by a fellow exhibitor
He looked amazing and was complemented on his condition by the vets and steward present
It is a week since we sent off our form, we rang the JMB to see how quickly we could get it done so as to minimise the impact on our HOYS preparation.
Thank you jmbsec for your help and co-operation in this matter and your professionalism
Kymara's owner, Leanne and rider Chelsea can now look forward to HOYS!
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Post by masters on Sept 21, 2009 15:07:25 GMT
So Penny h and Rockstar has proof that re-measuring mid season is not a problem!!! Have a great Hoys.
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Post by rubyshoes1 on Sept 21, 2009 17:10:30 GMT
To object to a horse weeks before HOYS (eg Colorado) as well is just downright nasty!! I am in agreement with stamping out the dodgy measuring of animals that are big, but I can't think why someone would do that unless for spiteful reasons. Presumably they have come up against this horse all year & could have complained before this. |
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Post by Artistic on Sept 21, 2009 17:55:10 GMT
And I am in complete agreement with rubyshoes1. No, we don't want oversize animals competing (cheating) in the wrong class, but what on earth is anyone thinking of objecting at this stage of the year, when they know exactly what is at stake. It's shameful behaviour.
Best luck to those who have been the victims of jealousy and come through correctly! Go for it!
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Post by wornthetshirt on Sept 21, 2009 23:58:58 GMT
So Penny h and Rockstar has proof that re-measuring mid season is not a problem!!! Have a great Hoys. Surely, isn't that the way it should be? Seemples............. |
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Post by rubyshoes1 on Sept 22, 2009 6:10:17 GMT
So Penny h and Rockstar has proof that re-measuring mid season is not a problem!!! Have a great Hoys. Surely, isn't that the way it should be? Seemples............. yes, that is the way it should be but I imagine if you get recalled a month before hoys it is pretty stressful & could ruin your enjoyment of the event, even if you know you will measure - a bit like being followed in a policecar when doing nothing - you feel a bit nervous!! |
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Post by jellybabe on Sept 22, 2009 9:48:31 GMT
jmb sec
can you give a break down of the annual height certificate
eg % to vet % to jmb and a further break down on the jmb figure
i,d just like to know when £70 is paid where it goes?
would you also give a bit of back ground on yourself
i,m sure that most of us would be interested in your cv
something like what you did before jmb ;; your experience of horses ;; your age ;; perhaps interview your self something like you see in hh and the papers
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Post by mf on Sept 22, 2009 9:54:22 GMT
would you also give a bit of back ground on yourself i,m sure that most of us would be interested in your cv something like what you did before jmb ;; your experience of horses ;; your age ;; perhaps interview your self something like you see in hh and the papers why is that relevant? sorry but I'm not interested. JMB sec is doing a job (as most of us do every day to pay for our horses) and having your cv in the public domain is not something which is neccessary! |
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so i feel ur pain not being able to compete!!! 
