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Post by fyfr on Sept 21, 2009 21:35:10 GMT
I am amazed to find thread related to Barcham Show and must point out to people that this women HW as she names herself in the threads is so cheating she put her child in a FYFR at Equifest to finish 4th and has been off lead for at least 2 years even at Equifest last year as i was judging there i have been watching all these threads and as i did not judge or compete at equifest this year i felt i could not complain but this is not on the women not only dishonest but a cheat i hope she does not come under me in the future i like to judge honest hard working competitors!!!!!!!!!
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Post by bellstar on Sept 22, 2009 13:24:19 GMT
Nothing would suprise me with her! She's unreal!!!!
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Post by chuck on Sept 22, 2009 13:29:06 GMT
I think you find a lot of people do fyfr until they are actually a year out of lr with regards to childs age. I remember a thread all about this at the beginning of the season asking the question what is actually a fyfr, with many people admitting that they go by childs age.
This class still needs to be clearer on the schedule and rules clarified
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Post by joanne pringal on Sept 22, 2009 15:18:51 GMT
so i am a little unclear hear..... did the Lady's child ride at equifest last year in a first ridden and then again this year in a first year first ridden ??i know that as long as you where still competing on the lead rane you can compete in a first year first ridden if it your first year off the lead by age the rules are a little grey ...
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Post by chuck on Sept 22, 2009 16:29:46 GMT
I think the little girl in question is still in lead rein as she was placed at Equifest in class 440 Open lead Rein pony rider 10yrs and under ..................................... etc.
Like you say FYFR is a very grey area and needs some proper rules laid down.
We are put off doing FR purely for this reason.
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Post by fyfr on Sept 22, 2009 17:58:09 GMT
no the girl in question is 10yrs old and has been competing off lead for 2/3 yrs and the mother just looking to pick up easy prize money not fair on the true first year first riddens and that was the class she was in.
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Post by fannycradock on Sept 22, 2009 18:46:57 GMT
no the girl in question is 10yrs old and has been competing off lead for 2/3 yrs and the mother just looking to pick up easy prize money not fair on the true first year first riddens and that was the class she was in. This is getting ridiculous - leave Heather alone. She works hard with her ponies and her daughter rides well. It is disgusting that you lot can come on here and do a complete character assassination of her when most of you dont even know her. I have known her a long time and have always found her to be friendly and helpful and always encouraging with the children. Get a life and stop being so spiteful - makes you wonder who the bad losers really are? ??
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halfpass
Happy to help....a lot
Return of the Dame
Posts: 12,964
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Post by halfpass on Sept 22, 2009 19:05:37 GMT
we have had to lock one thread and remove another on this subject please don't make it another, I do not know this person and TBH don't wish to, but I have to say this argument is very one sided and would appear to be bullying, to disguise it as a thread about first year first ridden is a bit bellow the belt, so I would suggest that you stick to the title or this will be removed as well.
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Post by nici on Sept 22, 2009 19:42:22 GMT
I shall enter this debate, if it is truly about what is a FYFR, as I will have this dilema next year. This season we have been members of a small local riding club, and my 5yo daughter has competed in FR classes. There were no FYFR classes, and she made the surprise decision that she no longer wanted to compete on LR. Even though I didn't think she was ready for FR, I supported her decision and let her enter FR classes. Most shows there were only 2 or 3 in the FR classes, although there were 6 I think at the trophy show. In nearly every show Cerys was placed last, among the much older kids - no complaint about that, the other kids were true FRs (I know most of them personally) and much more ready for FR than Cerys. Generally they have much "better" ponies too than our scruffy little Shetland (not that we'd swap her for all the HOYS ponies in the world ) Not sure where we'll be competing next year, as our old RC is moving to a new location, and will be quite a hike away. We might well go to shows that have FYFR classes. Cerys will still only be 6, so well within the age range for LR even and for FYFR. But having competed all season in FR classes, albeit in tiny classes, and doing walk/trot shows if she didn't feel confident to canter, I feel uneasy about putting her in FYFR classes, yet nervous about her going into a big FR class... While Cerys loves to get rosettes, we're not that bothered about placings - I've been the proudest mummy on the showground at every show this season, just watching her go out there with the hugest grin on her face. I would be mortified if someone accused us of not competing within the spirit of FYFR classes, but truly believe that if a show has both FYFR and FR classes, she would be competing in FYFR on an equal footing, and at a disadvantage in FR as she is so young. I would be grateful for any thoughts from HGers ;D
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Post by over the hill on Sept 22, 2009 20:14:31 GMT
Nici it sounds like you have the right approach to showing no child should be pushed or overfaced rather like a young horse. as a judge of many years I have competed, produced and judged to an increasingly high standard. I agree that fyfr can be a grey area and I think the best course of action would be to continue to compete at local shows generally they prove to be friendly helpful venues. Not always under the scrutiny of national level competitors the judge can use their discretion to encourage grass root level competitors after all they are our stars of the future. Some jusges will allow a lead rein competitor ato be on the lead rein for the walk trot around ther arena but will allow a young rider to have a go off the lead rein for the individual show. The best place to find good shows is word of mouth talk to other Mums and find out where they go. Above all please remember that showing should always be fun. Good luck
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Post by appauled on Sept 22, 2009 20:31:49 GMT
I must say I was appalled after watching the FYFR class at PUK this year. Obviously there were a lot of complaints being banded around about various ponies in the class. As I watched I saw a number of ponies removed from the ring after other competitors had complained. Children were coming out of the class in tears with parents loudly disputing that they were breaking the rules and slagging off other ponies in the class. It was a horrible ugly mess. The rules at PUK were quite clear though I think. Not to have done any class off the lead rein before 1 Jan. Problem is competitors were complaining about other ponies in the class and they were then removed at the time of the class loudly disputing. Where was the definate proof. Surely this should have been taken up by the formal complaint procedure after the class.
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Post by perfect on Sept 22, 2009 20:41:21 GMT
There dosent seem to be any rules as to this class and i will also be in a delema next season, as my grandaughter is only 6yrs( technically 5 because of her birthday) she has been doing FYFR this season, so what happens in 2010 she will not be experianced enough to compete in with the older kids in FR, so will she be classed as cheating if she does fyfr. Really she has another 3 seasons in LR, but i cant run anymore(to old) and so hence fyfr. Iv looked in the rule books to no avail.
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Post by nici on Sept 22, 2009 20:44:48 GMT
If we competed at a show where the rules specifically stated not to have competed off LR before 1st Jan, we would definitely not do FYFR. However in many shows that rule isn't stated, there's just an age rule. The more I think about it, the more it "feels" wrong to me to do FYFR after doing FR, so we probably wouldn't do it, whatever the rules said. Maybe I've put my daughter at a disadvantage by allowing her to do classes off lead so young, but she's had so much fun competing this year, and we really don't care if she takes another year or so to catch up to the level of the other kids in FR. I'm sure she'll have just as much fun next year, even if she does continue to prop up the bottom of the lineup! Somehow the judge and steward always manage to find her a Special rosette if she's below the placings, and it's usually one of her favourite colours (pink or purple) which makes it extra special ;D
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ada
Full Member
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Post by ada on Sept 22, 2009 22:24:12 GMT
I think FR classes should be used to get kids going, some are quicker to go on their own, sometimes they will have a blipp and need to get their confidence back. FYFR is great, less presure for little ones, when they are happy and confident then move up. My daughter did a few FYFR classes at the end of the season when she was on lead rein, it was pretty hairy for me watching!!! No matter how well they go at home, it is excruciating to watch your little bundle all on their own in the ring......But when it all comes together its FAB....
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Post by perfect on Sept 22, 2009 22:30:32 GMT
well said ada agree with you, but! because your child did some fyfr at the end of the season, does that mean you cant do it the following year,? this is where no rules dont help us at all things need to be clarified...
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ada
Full Member
Posts: 489
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Post by ada on Sept 22, 2009 22:31:09 GMT
P.S. Perfect you looked pretty fit to me when i saw you on Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bet you can run faster than most folks.......,...++
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Post by perfect on Sept 23, 2009 10:19:17 GMT
Hi ada yes im quite fit for my age, but since iv had my back operation my legs dont work as well as they should and i also have wonky knees, as my friends will clarify. and i made the heartbreaking decision to sell my beloved LR pony as i couldnt run with him anymore, even though ive two other grandchildren who could have ridden him if id have been ok.. and yes!!!! its fab to see the little one on there own ,but its a big tear jerky as well because your frightend to death in case anything goes wrong and your child gets hurt
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Post by Easy on Sept 23, 2009 10:32:25 GMT
The solution could be a Novice Rider First Ridden with a rule stating once a child had won a class they are no longer eligible to compete. This would provide less confident kids the chance to gain ring experience and feel safe and those who have done FYFR classes one year and perhaps been unable to ride ponies through no fault of their own until the next year the chance to compete as well.
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Post by bunny on Sept 23, 2009 10:43:28 GMT
Yes agree on the Novice rider, my daughter will be in open FR next year at 6 having competed this year FYFR on her supersafe tolerant shetland. She hasnt won a class yet apart from one where there was only her in it as we dont travel far , so it will be a little while before she is competing on an even keel with the older children. Her show is still a bit 'motorbike' like ) although she does know her what to do however and does not want to do LR. In the NPS champs there was a huge class and competitors in there who were competing in the open FR finals on superstar ponies at the same show doing foot perfect shows.
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Post by barefoot on Sept 23, 2009 12:28:38 GMT
This is something I have been giving some thought lately, I rather reluctantly aloud my daughter off the lead at at show in the summer, she took part in the FR class and ended up 2nd, it was all very brief as it was unplanned and the pony is used to lead rein. Last week on the new show pony at a local show she ended up in the open 148cm and under class, she did a walk and trot show foot perfect (but no canter yet!) fin 2nd and res champ of the show. She has never had a push button pony so I would class next yr as her proper first go at FYFR(though up here she may not get the opp due to the class not being on). Maybe I will get some crap for this but she is fairly inexperienced off the lead and 7yrs old. In my opinion nici your daughter should still be eligible for FYFR. I agree the rules need to be clearer but what if you win and are out of class after one show and there was only 1 or 2 of you in the class- it hardly constitutes experience to go to the next stage! I think most sensible people know when they are pushing their luck and collecting rosettes. Personally I would rather be last in the right class than 1st in the wrong one, these people will always be in showing, we should just suck it up and moan about it in the lorry home or complain to the right people about it! NOT on a public forum or on the show ground where the poor wee unfortunate girl could find out- it's not her fault!! I hope your wee girl has a fab season next year she is a total poppet and so is the pony!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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Post by anne marie on Sept 23, 2009 14:18:18 GMT
hi i think that there has been a bit of a mix up hear the little girl you are talking about is ten but only just my daughter competed on her on pony in a riding club class and because it was the same no that she competed with there for it reg as her name by mistake,going back to the first year first ridden thing the little girl competed on the lead rain at equifest last year and had never ridden this pony of the lead until this year although has had other pony to ride at local level f/r her mum contacted Betsy at equifest to find out the rules for this class Betsy was quite happy for her to compete in the class as she is still only very young and agreed that children do ride of the lead at an earlier age and it is only right to let them progress most local shows do not give you an option of a first year first ridden. so most younger competitor's mostly stand at the bottom of the line against 12 year olds but this at least gives them ring craft which all children have to lurn Betsy reassured every one that entered by saying that the judge was more than competent in jugging a class and would be looking at age and ability of rider , i am so sad to see that these threads have been used to bit*h and bully people i have known this lady for 9 years and she her self has been showing for all of her life and because one lady has come on the seen this year she has caused nothing but upset and if she feels that by creating thers threads to try and destroy her good reputation it to me shows how pathetic she is i can vouch for this lady she would to anything for ****** one she is well liked in all works of life and is such a nice lady i have asked her to be god mouther to my child not something to ask some one to be if they are all the things that so Meany of u think see is that don't even know her i do so hope all of this come to a stop and this site is used as intended !!!!! thank you Anne Marie
people have already been spoken too (on site and via PM) about this subject yet you have taken it one step further and named the child, IP addresses will be checked, stay on topic or this thread will be REMOVED
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Post by sidesaddlelady on Sept 23, 2009 20:42:04 GMT
My Bonnie will not go on the lead rein and is a horror to anyone in the family who leads her. However, she does ride by herself on her shettie (she is only 6 and a little challenged by the way). She wont take instruction, but wants to have a go at shows.
At the moment I am getting around the situation by entering the pony in a class, but not coming forward. Then I put the daisy reins on the pony and let her ride around the showground to her hearts content. But now she has seen other little children doing the FR classes she wants to have a go. But she cant ride without the daisy reins so cant go in! She also canters by herself out hacking in a straight line, but wont try to canter a figure eight (or any show with a bend in it).
FYFR classes at our own shows rule that cantering is not required so she could come and do these classes. But, if I allow her in the ring in Jan 2010, she will only have that year, and to be honest, dont think she will manage the canter by the end of 2010. So, that leaves the quandry, what class to put her in during 2011 when we cant do FYFR again.
I think that the answer should be, enter the FYFR classes until canter fully established and not a danger to others. So, after the first year, to do the FYFR class HC. That way all angles are covered, no one is upset and no 'cheating' is involved.
From the show organisers point of view, we run the FYFR classes in a package which will include other classes such as best FR rider, best FR M&M, best FR plaited types, FR mares and FR geldings as well as the FYFR, then a championship. That way, the FYFR can go in the other classes if they feel up to it, or just stick with the FYFR class.
If anyone has any good wording for this class please pm me as we always try to improve our unaffiliated classes so that as many children as possible can have a go. Our wording goes along the lines of FR combination to be in their first year off the lead rein (but lead reins can compete in the class but no other FR classes), children can be any age and that canter is not a requirement, but can be done. What does everyone think?
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Post by danniebmum on Sept 23, 2009 21:22:32 GMT
when dannie was on the lead rein we went to a local show that was under bsps and there were no entries in first ridden class so we let her go in and have a trot round not thinking anything of it the next year we entered fyfr classes and someone complaned and we had to leave the ring,we did not mean to break any rules we just forgot all about it but were not allowed to do it again.
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Post by nici on Sept 23, 2009 23:06:46 GMT
sidesaddlelady - my daughter doesn't ride her ponies on grass without grass reins! And that includes at shows. No judge has ever commented on them, although she might get marked down for them. The litle grey pony she's been riding this year has an established habit of snatching the reins and is ALWAYS ridden in grass reins (except by the older stronger kids who can stop her doing it themselves). Her new black standard Shetland is only a baby, just 4 this year, and she's only just started riding him. He's fine on a surface or out on a hack, but as he's been on restricted grazing, he finds the temptation of lush grass too much... So we put grass reins on him, as I don't want him to establish a habit of grazing - he's never ever allowed to graze when wearing his bridle. Sorry, that was a bit off topic Interesting to see the different views on FYFR. If the class wasn't called FYFR I might consider letting Cerys do it next year. Maybe tots FR or beginners FR, or novice rider FR... But I think I'd be too scared to do FYFR in case someone protested - as I said earlier I'd be mortified if anyone thought I was deliberately cheating for a better chance of being in the ribbons. I just think Cerys would be happier in a ring with those of similar ability than with more established kids up to twice her age. I have been trying to teach her to do a walk/trot figure 8 for her show, with maybe a canter along the final straight, if she feels confident enough (pony sometimes bucks, so she sometimes prefers to stick to walk & trot). She's definitely not been up to doing a proper FR show. Ah well, maybe by next year she'll have learned properly what a figure 8 looks like, and won't look so out of place in a FR class It's been highly entertaining watching her this year and wondering where she's going to send her pony next - it's a good job her little Shetland can turn on a sixpence lol! Whatever class she goes in, I know that she will ride her show with a grin on her face, give her pony a hug at the end and be thrilled if she gets a rosette of any colour.
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Post by victoria (highhill) on Sept 24, 2009 6:43:16 GMT
I think if the class is to be called First Year First Ridden it has to be for children in their first year of first ridden - much easier to 'police' it then. The alternative would be A novice rider first ridden as suggested above and then the rules could be different
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Post by parkview on Sept 24, 2009 7:12:53 GMT
Anne Marie if your pointing the finger i would think again i go on here under parkview as you are aware of i dont use the guest posting area but 10 mins ago someone called me and told me to look which is why i am replying to you quote all i can say is get your facts right i dont need to hide behind a user name. Like everyone says you use the wooden spoon and it looks as though your friend is taking all the brunt. I question who is the real problem!!!!!!!!!!!! or are you a real friend?
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Post by lucretia on Sept 24, 2009 7:22:03 GMT
Nici Rochdale RC do a beginners first ridden for 9 yrs and under, canter optional in individual show.. They also allow an adult to walk alongside if necessary. Children can enter this class and the lead rein class if they wish. The normal first ridden class is for children who are a bit more confident off the LR.
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Post by dellibear on Sept 24, 2009 8:25:38 GMT
My pony and little jockey have now entered 2 FYFR classes at Sidesaddlelady's shows - whilst also doing lead rein. She has now announced that she wont do LR again! The FYFR class at these shows are held in a very small indoor school - so nice and safe. The pony is also just off the LR and I would not be confident to let the pair "loose" in a large ring in a field at a busy show - yet. Even though we have started the FYFR classes in the last quarter of 2009 I intend the pair to carry on into 2010 (still in the first year off the lead) until she is confident in the canter and the pony has proven himself. Hopefully by mid to end of next summer we will be in those large rings in a field doing our "grown up" FR classes. I think that a year doing FYFR is perfect - we may not need the full year but then again we might.....
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Post by barefoot on Sept 24, 2009 9:37:16 GMT
wow- reading on from my post I can't believe that by allowing her to to one BSPS FR cl (there was no FYFR) where she trotted away from the ride, down the diagonal and bowed-that I might of blown it for her for next year! In saying that I have never seen any FYFR up here, so I guess we will just have to enter FR and trot. At the end of the day as long as she has enjoyed her day and is safe I couldn't care less if we are last because of it and i'm sure that's what counts for most Mums!! We will try to spend the winter doing Intro dressage where I know noone can moan about her only doing walk and trot! As for the origional post I am now totally lost and I am going back to the comfort of the members boards-tis scarey in the land of multiple user names
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Post by winston on Sept 24, 2009 10:07:42 GMT
I too have spent sometime thinking over this one and this is my suggestion for a class's wording...
FY/Fr for riders not 9 on 1st Jan, in their first season of fr (not to have competed in any class off lead rein before 1st Jan of current year) cantering not allowed.
This would provide a class for the novice jockeys who are not happy to canter. Also help those lead rein ponies get used to the idea of FR. Don't forget it can be a difficult transition for them to.
I personally preferred my daughter to ride in proper FR classes, and she only did two FY/FR. FY/FR classes were usually full of kids who had no idea what they were doing! safer to be amongst kids who can look after themselves.
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