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Post by Futures on Nov 1, 2009 17:04:03 GMT
Having read the thread in the lounge area there looks to be doubt about the requirement of CRB checks for officials. In reality the horse world - apart from Driving - has been very slow at requiring these to be done. Every society offering any sort of sport involving children will be required to request CRB checks from those officiating within the next couple of years. Judges and stewards are ambassadors for their sport and in most cases this will not be a problem. A few may have to make a choice. The problem with enhanced checks is that things people do in their teens can return to haunt them. They may think these are "spent" but they remain on a check forever.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Nov 1, 2009 17:09:45 GMT
I honestly think equestrian sports are slightly different - If your child was for instance on a local football team, you'd drop them off at training, and pick them up at the end, so the coach or whoever would be in charge of your child without supervision, which also includes them changing into/out of sports kit. In those circumstances I would want the coach or whoever to be CRB checked.
How many children go to a show and are left there without adult supervision? Mostly if the child you are accompanying is in a class with judge/stewards officiating, you would be outside the ring watching them perform - I can't understand why you would think CRB checks would be necessary?
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Post by Futures on Nov 1, 2009 17:20:40 GMT
It won't be for us to decide and it will happen. It's likely to affect very few showing officails and is nothing to be scared of unless someone has done something very wrong. There will alwsys be those who do things and get away with it and others who are affected. Surely the horse worlld isn't so crooked that this will be such a big issue as those in your Lounge seem to suggest? If it is then perhaps CRB's will help to clean things up and make us all safer and the kids behave better if they want to officate one day. That can only be a good thing.
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Post by hollycane on Nov 1, 2009 22:07:57 GMT
I can't see why CRB checks would be required as there is little or no interaction between the judges, stewards and riders/handlers and none of it is not completely open to supervision or spectating by the general public as that is the very nature of showing. I think the issue is CRB checks overall. They are costly and out of date in 3 months. Some judges or stewards may only do two shows a year maybe 4 months apart.
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Post by Guestless on Nov 2, 2009 14:45:55 GMT
The problem with enhanced checks is that things people do in their teens can return to haunt them. They may think these are "spent" but they remain on a check forever. They do show up everything but IMO that doesn't mean someone is unsuitable to do something unless (a) they have tried to hide it, or (b) the activity shown is relevant to the post they are being disclosed for (ie fraud shows up for someone being proposed as treasurer).
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Nov 2, 2009 15:46:10 GMT
Our PC committee had to have them!
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Post by robertparkerjones on Nov 2, 2009 16:38:21 GMT
In education (schools) CRB checks are carried out on all staff and volunteers that work in a particular establishment and are likely to come into contact with the children. We take some of our children to RDA so it would be interesting to know if all the helpers require a CRB check. It is highly unlikely that any judge or official is alone with a child (unsupervised) at a show, so really can't see that CRB checks for everyone are necessary!
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Post by qbc on Nov 2, 2009 16:48:58 GMT
My husband is having to have these done for any members of his staff who visit one of the schools his firm provides IT support.
They don't have any direct contact with children, they are supporting the infrastructure rather than machines in the class rooms, but do regularly attend premises, hence the requirement.
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Post by hp on Nov 2, 2009 17:12:05 GMT
We are fencing contractors and have had to have them done for all staff working on a particular school despite them not coming into contact with the children at all. In fact the job was finished before the checks came back!!!!!!!!
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Post by ladybird on Nov 2, 2009 17:24:21 GMT
Frankly i have never heard of anything more ridiculous than a judge having to have a crb check, it would be pc gone mad.
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Post by emixxx on Nov 2, 2009 17:44:05 GMT
futures guest STOP NIT PICKING and get on with life. A judge dosen't even touch the pony in a class let alone touch a child, its stupid.
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Post by Futures on Nov 2, 2009 21:04:26 GMT
Over the coming few years those officiating will be required to have CRB's done in order for events involving children to be insured because since Baby P an numerous other cases every child matters. It isn't a problem to other sports so it shouldn't affect those running and judging at shows. The problem could be that every show/breed society may ask for CRB's. The ideal would be for the Show Horse Council to keep a record of officials so they don't need to be done for each society people judge for. They will need to be done over the winter as they can take a long time to come through if people have moved around but only a couple of weeks if you've lived in the same place for years. At least we know that shows are doing their best to safeguard children. God forbid if they ignored these things and something did happen. There will always be that chance.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Nov 2, 2009 21:12:09 GMT
Can I ask what's your source for this information, as you seem very certain that this is going to become a requirement, I'm just wondering as you state in your 2nd post that 'it will happen', do you know something the rest of us don't? Who has made this decision, and how will it be enforced - and what organisation has the authority to ensure that all the societies comply?
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Post by Futures on Nov 2, 2009 21:21:34 GMT
If you read the papers and listen to the news you will have picked up what is happening. There is a great deal going on regarding safeguarding children. The Pony Club, Driving Society, etc are bringing in requirements for their workers & officials. In truth a CRB can be money well spent if you help others. Once everyone has them they will become an accepted part of life.
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Post by Milliesmum on Nov 2, 2009 21:27:03 GMT
You didn't answer my question. So you are giving an opinion then, that this is the direction in which the societies will be heading, it is not actual fact that any of the societies have already made the decision to make these checks compulsory? The Pony Club website has a child protection policy but nowhere does it mention CRB checks? www.pcuk.org/Parents-Information/Your-Child-s-Protection/
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Post by ladybird on Nov 2, 2009 21:34:52 GMT
'once everyone has one'...........? Next people judging hamsters and the like will need one according to you. Futures guest. how you have the nerve to liken the tragedy of 'baby p' to someone judging children on their ponies is incredible, please think before posting again.
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Post by Futures on Nov 2, 2009 21:46:19 GMT
child protection in sport
As well as working with key organisations like the NSPCC, we helped establish the Child Protection in Sport Unit (CPSU) in 2001 to improve child protection in sport. The unit has already worked to:
•Put in place child protection policies in all funded sports in England •Ensure that qualified coaches working with children in all sports National Governing Bodies have Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) checks •Helped to institute CRB checks for all officials and coaches working with children •Guide all organisations, in the private and public sectors, who provide activities for children The CPSU helps sports and other organisations to:
•Recognise their responsibility to protect children and young people left in their care •Develop strategies and standards to protect children and young people •Identify and respond to adults who are a threat to children and young people •Develop child protection knowledge and skills among all staff and volunteers What can you do? Everyone, especially parents, can check that any sports club they come into contact with is safeguarding the welfare and well-being of children and young people.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Nov 2, 2009 21:55:00 GMT
Interested to know where you have pasted this information from and how it would be applied to the equestrian world?
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Post by ladybird on Nov 2, 2009 22:00:03 GMT
we are not talkng about leaving our children in anyones care/sports club/coaches etc, we (or you) were discussing judges being crb checked as i understood it, these people are not working with children, you do not leave your children in their care, they are showing their PONIES under these poor unfortunate judges who give up their time to support shows. THere is a huge difference for heavens sake. To be blunt, how the hell do you imagine anyone could be at risk riding or leading their pony/horse around the ring to be judged by any individual. You might as well suggest crb checking everybody around the ring taking photographs, actually you probably will.
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Post by poop on Nov 2, 2009 22:16:51 GMT
i think its all well and good sports coaches etc having them as parents Leave their children in their care, there are at least several documented cases of football / tennis etc coaches abusing their pupils over the past few years. I can also therefore see how pony club / instructors and riding school proprieters would need one. However as already noted by several posters Judges do not have any contact with children at a show out of the public eye. Therefore it does appear to be PC gone mad. I am well aware that Social care workers who are waiting for a CRB update to come back are not allowed to have UNSUPERVISED contact with or transport their young people, however they are still able to work with them if accompanied by someone else who has an up to date CRB.
I would be interested to know whether judges of sports such as gymnastics would need them as they are similarly 'observing from a distance'. (although perhaps in this case is it considered neccesary as the children would be skimpily dressed and an temptation to paedophiles and leering perverts?)
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Post by cassie30 on Nov 2, 2009 22:29:06 GMT
This has gone crazy. Honestly. Now i can understand if kids are going away to pony club camp, or having lessons, where instructors have to be hands on, but judges? That really is ridiculous, we all, around ringside watch the kids, as much, if not more than the judges do, do we all get them next? perhaps parents will have to get them one day too, how pathetic, i cant see this will apply to judges if im honest.
Anyway, who will have to pay for this? judges earn buggar all as it is, will it be paid back to them, along with their expenses? will it be split by the amount of shows they do? Nah, ridiculous!
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Post by ferret on Nov 2, 2009 23:03:58 GMT
i visit schools regularily in my job , and we havent had to have CRB checks ?
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Post by brindlerainbow on Nov 3, 2009 16:43:16 GMT
I've never heard of the CPSU!!! has anyone else heard of it apart from futures? ? Maybe futures you could explain how a judge and/or steward would be able to act in an inappropriate way towards a child in a show in full view of the public/spectators/parents/grooms/producers etc.
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Post by Futures on Nov 3, 2009 18:47:19 GMT
As said before there is nothing sinister in the prospect of CRB checks and it is unlikely that any judges or stewards will be lost due to this. CRB's are a sensible precautionary measure now required for many different roles. Ferret's comment about requirement for CRB checks is dependent on the county/authority in question. In some areas you can't start work or set foot in a place/event until you have received your CRB number. If/when CRB's are required by show/showing organisations then their officials will have to comply. Unless people have done something seriously bad then there is nothing to worry about. Showing will need to fall in line with other sports eventually.
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Post by futures on Nov 3, 2009 18:51:27 GMT
The CPSU is Child Protection in Sport Unit
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Post by Milliesmum on Nov 3, 2009 18:52:23 GMT
I don't think it's sinister, I just think it's unnecessary! I don't think people are worried about them, just really find it difficult to see the point of them in a show situation.
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Post by brindlerainbow on Nov 3, 2009 19:16:36 GMT
futures I realise theres nothing sinister in CRB checks I know exactly what they are. I am CRB checked as im a TA in a school and have also had extensive training on child protection issues.............
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Post by robertparkerjones on Nov 3, 2009 19:17:44 GMT
Wonder who will pay for them???
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Post by shelleyj on Nov 3, 2009 19:20:11 GMT
they are only of use if the individual has been caught - its the ones who haen't been who worry me. I can see the value in the checking process but it seems like another stealth tax on the law abiding to me
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Post by Milliesmum on Nov 3, 2009 19:53:07 GMT
Yep, it would cost an awful lot of money to check everybody - where will it come from and whose pocket will it end up lining? Like I said on another thread, a GP at our practice was caught with indecent images of children - that's a practicing GP who examines children every day, no doubt he would have had a clean record to be in the job he was in.
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