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Post by showponies on Oct 23, 2006 20:40:53 GMT
Before i begin this is not meant as a bi*ch towards anyone nor is it aimed at any person, pony, etc in particular it is mearly just an opinion.
I have read the thread about the intermediates at hoys having alot of ponies doing them that had also competed in the riding pony class. (i am not just refering to hoys with this thread by the way) The way i read it there was the assumption that these ponies where more of a show pony type than an intermediate type. It is my opinion that alot of these ponies are actually more intermediates than show ponies. Every season the height of 148cm show ponies seem to increase so that they have reached a height now where they are much closer to 15hands and some possibly over. 148cm show ponies are suppose to still be pony like in their type and action, this is something i feel has been lost with the ever increasing height issues. More and more of these ponies, yet still being stunning specimens, are looking more and more like intermediates, yet it is the bigger ponies that win, leaving possibly better quality animals that truly are the correct height further down the line up.
AS i stated earlier this is only my opinion and is no a reflection of any pony, nor is it a case of 'bad looser'. It is also not aimed at the hoys classes (who all did very well and deserved their placings), but i would be intrested to hear other peoples opinion on this?
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Post by angle on Oct 24, 2006 11:28:58 GMT
I disagree. I think show ponies USED to be scopier and altogether more 'horsey', but now tend to be more ponylike.
I think the main issue in the intermediates is the simplicity of the show, It should be moving towards more of a 'hack' show, otherwise they are just show ponies with an extended age limit.
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Post by BST on Oct 24, 2006 12:02:07 GMT
That has often been my arguement. However most do a fancy show to qualify just when u get to HOYS u do that tiny little show. I think they shld say to int do wot u want but maybe say only one change of rein or something to keep it short. They did that a few years ago in the int.
I always find it so annoying spend all yr doing fancy stuff then get to hoys an basically do a fr show! Thats y i think RIHS is better get a massive ring to do a fancy/difficult show. Thats why at RIHS you usually get proper int winning x
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Post by showponyfan on Oct 24, 2006 12:21:43 GMT
I think this thread is just repeating what has already been said as the owner of 2 intermediates i feel very strongly about these classes 14-2 ponies are that, they are not intermediates they should not be allowed in the intermediate class as they are having two bites of the cherry 14-2 ponies have their own class and should stay there. The issue for more hack like shows does not cut it for me as i feel the 14-2s can if need be do a serpentine etc after all some of them do style and performance classes. so I personally think the way of going is much more important, ie flowing paces, smooth transitions and the look at me factor is what should count and a good 14-2 has these qualities which is why they keep winning, any old riding school horse can do a serpentine and rein back. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but the true intermediate are the ones who lose out when 14-2s keep winning their class and it is not jealousy it is anger.
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Post by HOYSINT on Oct 24, 2006 12:28:00 GMT
agree with lots of the above but i doubt anything will b done about it! we need the judges to make a stand. Lets hope this yrs judges at rihs and hoys go for true int types that deserve the win (ie have gone like int to)
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Post by julie guest on Oct 24, 2006 19:52:01 GMT
how about declaring at the beginning of the year which they want to be. one or the other. if they have chosen the wrong class TUFF..... no one else gets the chance to do two classes. i know it is up to the judges to put 14.2 ponies down, but if they are judging a class of say, 2 hunter type ponies, and inter. of very bad conf. and was naughty and a riding club type, then the judge has no option. make them declare, one way or another.......
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Post by 148 on Oct 24, 2006 20:09:58 GMT
so does nobody think that their is an issue with heights? and the 148 (or any other height sections) seems to have bigger ponies in it each year?
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Post by a on Oct 24, 2006 20:27:50 GMT
nope, I dont think so, you get the odd big pony, but in my opinion they are quite small!
I have ridden one of questionable height, and in the ring I felt i towered over everything else, so to me that suggests that the majority are ok!
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p
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Post by p on Oct 24, 2006 22:11:08 GMT
not what we're talking about, but some of the intermediates seem huge, but it's maybe only compared to the 14.2s
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Post by guest565984 on Oct 25, 2006 8:38:35 GMT
I suppose the other argument is that its a bit tight on the smaller SP's 143, 145 etc who dont get that opportunity for another class.
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Post by height on Oct 25, 2006 9:56:10 GMT
i think most height sections look about a hand bigger than they should be! we went to look at a 13shp earlier this year and it towered above our 148 sp
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Post by wldbuy on Oct 25, 2006 13:42:17 GMT
umm probably the Tempest, but wld prob also wait for next yr as i know a lot of nice small int will be on the market!!!!   |
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Post by wldbuy on Oct 25, 2006 13:43:43 GMT
above post in wrong place, this is meant for wot i wld buy sorry!!!!
it was a long nite last nite!!
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Post by i think on Oct 28, 2006 8:03:13 GMT
I think it is un-fair for 14.2's to compete in the ints. why should 14.2's be able to compete in both classes?? either the pony is a 14-2 or its an int. i find that ints now are stronger types and when 14.2's get in the ring they look like a show pony against the rest and it is then so obvious they are a show pony and not an int! i dont understand how a 14.2 can do well in a 14.2 class and the also do well in a int class? either it is a show pony or an int?  (only an opinion) |
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Post by ls on Oct 28, 2006 12:21:43 GMT
I belive 15hh WHP/ intermediate WHs have to delare what class they are doing on one day and stick to it (ie just intermediates or just 15handers) is this true of the other intermediate types?
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Post by catherine on Nov 3, 2006 20:05:05 GMT
how about declaring at the beginning of the year which they want to be. one or the other. if they have chosen the wrong class TUFF..... no one else gets the chance to do two classes. i know it is up to the judges to put 14.2 ponies down, but if they are judging a class of say, 2 hunter type ponies, and inter. of very bad conf. and was naughty and a riding club type, then the judge has no option. make them declare, one way or another....... i agree with the person who said make them declare at the beginning of the season, especially if the bsps are not prepared to change the rules on heights....... |
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Post by woofwoof on Nov 28, 2006 6:59:48 GMT
My own opinion for what its worth is that ponies should not be allowed to compete in intermediate classes. Either that or allow them to compete but to lower the current rider age for intermediates to eighteen.
As it is I don't agree with the BSPS running these classes anyway as its a pony society so should run classes for ponies with the other "horse" bodies running intermediate classes.
Intermediate classes are mostly just a means of allowing older BSPS riders to cling on to their pony showing days where they may be one of the established "faces! and where they feel comfortable, with a fair amount of success too and so avoiding for several more years having to compete against proper grown ups as small fish in bigger ponds.
Robert Walker was winning Wembley hunter qualifiers at 17. Hanging on to their pony days until well in to their twenties leaves riders no more prepared for the time they HAVE to compete in proper horse classes. The way max age limits have risen in recent years a few years on and we'll be seeing pensioners still competing in these intermediate classes still trying to justify that its a stepping stone to something greater.
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Post by Show pony fan on Nov 28, 2006 8:45:14 GMT
I dont aree with you woofwoof, not everybody wants to move into BSHC&RHA, I know several people who have gomne on to do hacks and riding horse classes and they hated it, and after many years with the BSPS stopped competing which is a terrible shame. People show because they enjoy it if you dont then you stop. The BSPS have M&M classes now yhey are open age they also have the associate classes for adults but unfortunatly they do not qualify for RIHS or HOYS. I personally think it would be far better to not allow the 14-2s in the small show riding type and up the age of intermediates to 30 to keep these classes for the young adults. The name could be changed to Open Riding Type classes if intermediate isnt appropriate. People have to accept times are changing most adults are still living at home at 30, years ago 40 was considered old but not anymore. The point is many of my friends were gutted when they were to old for the intermediate classes and we feel there should be a show class for these people you only have to ask anybody in their last year would they like the age increased and everyone i have spoke to says yes. The BSHC&RHA is there for all who want to join but what about the many that have and did not like it. Another point is a lot of families have more than one child and it would be much easier if all the family could compete at the same show. The BSPS should have a members vote on the subject it should not be decided by people who do not compete in the class.
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Post by peterpan on Nov 28, 2006 10:35:21 GMT
AGREE WITH ABOVE ALTHPUGH NOT SURE ABOUT UPPING THE AGE TO 30. NEXT YEAR IS MY LAST YEAR AND I AM DEVASTATED!! WHAT AM I GOING TO DO AFTER? I AM NOT KEEN TO GO INTO THE HACK CLASSES, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME FEEL AS INTERMEDIATES AND NOT THE SAME AMOUNT OF CLASSES EITHER. AT THE BSPS CHAMPS THERE IS A VARIETY OF CLASSES WHILST AT THE BSHC&RH THERE IS A LOT LESS AND IT JUST DOESNT FEEL THE SAME.
TO BE HONEST ONCE I FINISH I WILL PROBABLY JUST STICK TO THE M&MS INSTEAD OF MOVING ONTO THE HORSES. ALSO AS I AM UNABLE TO HAVE A HACK AT HOME DUE TO WORK COMMITMENTS IT THEN SEEMS TO ME AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY TO KEEP A HORSE AT A PRODUCERS TO DO A FEW SHOWS A YEAR - FOR ME IT JUST DOESNT SEEM WORHT IT.
CALL ME PETER PAN BUT I WANT TO STAY ON THE PONIES FOREVER! MAYBE I WILL HAVE TO MOVE TO AUSTRALIA! ;D
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Post by showponyfan on Nov 28, 2006 11:33:18 GMT
peterpan thankyou for your support i dont know why you are unsure about upping the age as its the only way you and many others can carry on doing the class you enjoy, i know originally the class was meant as a stepping stone for the horse classes within the BSHC&RHA but as so many want to stay in these classes there is no reason not to make these open show horse class within the BSPS for all the riders that do not want to leave, my daughter is going into her last year and she is devastated as well. 10 Years ago these classes did not exist and they are now the most popular of all the classes so what does that tell you. I think we should start to petition the BSPS and all make our feelings known they may make some changes if enough people ask.
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Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 28, 2006 11:38:14 GMT
AGREE WITH ABOVE ALTHPUGH NOT SURE ABOUT UPPING THE AGE TO 30. NEXT YEAR IS MY LAST YEAR AND I AM DEVASTATED!! WHAT AM I GOING TO DO AFTER? I AM NOT KEEN TO GO INTO THE HACK CLASSES, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME FEEL AS INTERMEDIATES AND NOT THE SAME AMOUNT OF CLASSES EITHER. AT THE BSPS CHAMPS THERE IS A VARIETY OF CLASSES WHILST AT THE BSHC&RH THERE IS A LOT LESS AND IT JUST DOESNT FEEL THE SAME. TO BE HONEST ONCE I FINISH I WILL PROBABLY JUST STICK TO THE M&MS INSTEAD OF MOVING ONTO THE HORSES. ALSO AS I AM UNABLE TO HAVE A HACK AT HOME DUE TO WORK COMMITMENTS IT THEN SEEMS TO ME AN AWFUL LOT OF MONEY TO KEEP A HORSE AT A PRODUCERS TO DO A FEW SHOWS A YEAR - FOR ME IT JUST DOESNT SEEM WORHT IT. CALL ME PETER PAN BUT I WANT TO STAY ON THE PONIES FOREVER! MAYBE I WILL HAVE TO MOVE TO AUSTRALIA! ;D I agree with you, the hack classes dont have the same atmosphere as the intermediates do. Intermediates seem more relaxed, dont know why, maybe because i know alot of the riders...not sure why. As much as you want to hang on to the ponies you have to get into the adult world one day,so i reckon upping the age limit to 30 would be wrong. Get into the hack classes P.S-I'm lucky, i have one more year left n 148's...will be pinching a ride on my sisters 148 next year..if she lets me |
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Post by exinter jokey on Nov 28, 2006 11:48:11 GMT
I dont agree with upping the age to 30 - really you should be in adult classes by then. I was gutted when I got to old for intermediates but thats the way it goes, if we had our way we would all still be riding 13.2hh show ponies, we have to move on sometime LOL!!
Perhaps a better way would be to put a minimum age limit of the intermediates. If it were made over 17yrs but not over 25yrs, the 14.2hh show pony jockeys wouldnt be able to do the class and it would become more of an intermediate class. Fair enough some owners might have older jockeys who could do intermediate classes on 14.2hhs but at least the jockey would be the right age.....
Point for discussion?!!
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Post by peterpan on Nov 28, 2006 11:54:09 GMT
I think the idea of setting a younger age limit is a very good idea! I know unfortunately some jockeys are tall and have to move up the ponies rank quickly but a lower age would make the intermediate class exactly that not just a show pony class for slightly bigger ponies.
There are a lot of what i wld call true showpony combinations doing well in intermediates classes, this is not the idea of them.
If they are a stepping stone to hacks should we follow in that class and have a lower limit like them. I am sure it won't be long until we see 12 year olds in the class.
I am not sure what we can do to get our point across to the bsps. I have tried before about making the height above 14.2's and at one point it looked like it may come in but then they make to much money out of the intermediate classes to change the rule.
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Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 28, 2006 11:57:41 GMT
Perhaps a better way would be to put a minimum age limit of the intermediates. If it were made over 17yrs but not over 25yrs, the 14.2hh show pony jockeys wouldnt be able to do the class and it would become more of an intermediate class. Fair enough some owners might have older jockeys who could do intermediate classes on 14.2hhs but at least the jockey would be the right age..... Point for discussion?!! Uppering the age limit to 17 would stop the 14.2 riders competing in the small srt...but it would cause a problem for some people...for instance... If you had a 15 year old child which wanted to ride, but had too longer legs to ride a 14.2 they would need a SRT..so if you upped the limit to 17 they would not be able to ride and there would be no class for them, would there? They would be too tall for a 14.2, which would make the picture look wrong and wouldnt be old enough for a show riding type...would cause a big problem. Simple solution..declare what class you want to to at the beginning of the season, either chose 14.2's or ints. |
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Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 28, 2006 11:59:14 GMT
Just to point out i am a very tall rider and at the age of 14 i HAD to buy a large SRT as i was way too tall for a 14.2 or a Small, fortunatly for me the horse knew her job and she did very well for the 3 years i have had her. I ventured into the hacks last year, but 2007, think il stick to SRT as alot of unfair judging went on
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Post by twinkle on Nov 29, 2006 16:02:27 GMT
I just wanted to agree with 'Molly'. I had to move up to an intermediate when i was only 14 due to being very tall for my age. I would have looked stupid on a smaller pony! I did hacks for a couple of seasons on my isrt but found the judging quite facey. Intclasses were much more fun and relaxed, surely what showing should be about?!
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Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 29, 2006 16:17:56 GMT
I just wanted to agree with 'Molly'. I had to move up to an intermediate when i was only 14 due to being very tall for my age. I would have looked stupid on a smaller pony! I did hacks for a couple of seasons on my isrt but found the judging quite facey. Intclasses were much more fun and relaxed, surely what showing should be about?! Obviously when I first bought my intermediate i was only 14 so couldn't compete in the hack classes. Last year was my first year in hacks with my large SRT, I cant complain at the results I had, I qualified her 3 times this year as a hack and once as a SRT. Cant complain really but we did learn that once the judge gets on they can make it look the best in the class or they can make it look cr@p. Depending on who they want too win P.S- This is not in all cases but some ;D |
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Post by woof woof on Nov 29, 2006 23:00:56 GMT
I can see these classes being renamed as inter"pension"ate classes in years to come
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Molly
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Post by Molly on Nov 29, 2006 23:25:54 GMT
I can see these classes being renamed as inter"pension"ate classes in years to come Ha ha..now thats a good one |
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Post by woof woof on Nov 30, 2006 14:46:44 GMT
;-)
I can see everyone's point mind. In my BSPS days the max age was 18 and height 15hh. I was unfortunate to have a birthday in october too so had almost a year being 18 but too old and boy did that hack me off.
But I still think the BSPS, to increase and keep its member numbers and appease those on the committee whose offspring is facing being a nobody and having to compete against the big boys in horse classes is wrong to run these classes as a pony society.
Yes I agree, a tall 14 year old with a larger animal is penalised, too young for adult classes and a daunting impossible prospect even if they were of an age for the adult classes however few are going to be too big for an up to height 153cm of true hunter type (some of which are suspiciously MASSIVE anyway!).
By all means keep the intermediate classes in respect to the age of the rider but keep the height to a maximum of 153cm.
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