New Rule

[SamD]

well said claire, this will be the end of olympia as we know it because the producers will now only be interested in doing HOYS and RIHS qualifiers otherwise they will be out of business with only being able to produce one m&m each season, it will just make it an amatuers show - end up like PUK

[ActuallyY862U1W]

pompom said:

well said claire, this will be the end of olympia as we know it because the producers will now only be interested in doing HOYS and RIHS qualifiers otherwise they will be out of business with only being able to produce one m&m each season, it will just make it an amatuers show - end up like PUK

ummmm Pompom, I am sure what you ment to say is '' it will just make it a sub-standard show'' or something that to that affect. As we have already established and as Claire mentioned in her post she considers herself an amatuer............just becaust people are not producers it dosent mean they have inferior ponies........this is not a case of producers v amatures. lots of ''Amatures/non professionals have good Olympia standard ponies''.

[bank manager]

these comments are interesting, do you know who much it costs to compete at Olympia? and how much are the entries stabling at HOYS?....so which would you go to if you could only afford one!!!or perhaps a lot of you don't actually know the true costs for amateurs ie diy and pros who may just send the bill in

[manes&muzzles]

bank said:

these comments are interesting, do you know who much it costs to compete at Olympia? and how much are the entries stabling at HOYS?....so which would you go to if you could only afford one!!!or perhaps a lot of you don't actually know the true costs for amateurs ie diy and pros who may just send the bill in

Hoys cost £65 for stabling (one night only) and £75 to enter. The first prize is £75 and it only goes down to 5th. You are cramped into a tiny area with not much seating for spectators unless they are there at 7am in the morning and then dont move.

Olympia costs nothing to enter and nothing for stabling you are treated like royalty. You have a superb arena to do your show in and nearly everyone who buys a ticket can get to see the proceedings.

I know where I would rather be.

[gh]

I have been an infrequent visitor to this web site for the last 12 months. Whenever I log on, competitors are complaining vociferously about ‘facey’ judges putting up friends/producers or other. The NPS tries to do something about it, well intended (even though I’m not convinced it’s right because of anomalies already stated on this thread) to try and make it more fair if there is truth in the perception of judges judging 'faces', and everyone whines about that. Olympia IS the premier final for all the reasons stated, the problem lies with 12 different breeds competing at each qualifier for the one ticket. IF the object is to get the best ponies of each breed then the qualifiers are not set up properly. I defy any judge to be a specialist in every breed, some wouldn’t know a good Sec D or a Highland if it trod on their foot, and as a Shetland breeder for more years than I care to remember, most (not all) are really are clueless as to good breed type. The NPS should aim to get the 3 best of each breed in any one year to go to Olympia whoever qualifies them. Single breed qualifiers should be judged by breed panel judges who will not judge on ride alone, but also know what is good breed type. (Say 12 qualifiers for each breed, venues spread as geographically appropriate) 1st and second in each to go to their own breed final when top 3 ponies placed go to Olympia) As for HOYS, I’ve seen outrageously inconsistent conformation marks for various animals/breeds on a week to week basis. There is no perfect way to assess ponies or horses, but leaving the decisions to panel judges from each breed should ensure that whoever judges at Olympia, they will have the best representatives of each breed that year in front of them.

[rtk]

aimee said:

bank said:

these comments are interesting, do you know who much it costs to compete at Olympia? and how much are the entries stabling at HOYS?....so which would you go to if you could only afford one!!!or perhaps a lot of you don't actually know the true costs for amateurs ie diy and pros who may just send the bill in

Hoys cost £65 for stabling (one night only) and £75 to enter. The first prize is £75 and it only goes down to 5th. You are cramped into a tiny area with not much seating for spectators unless they are there at 7am in the morning and then dont move.

Olympia costs nothing to enter and nothing for stabling you are treated like royalty. You have a superb arena to do your show in and nearly everyone who buys a ticket can get to see the proceedings.

I know where I would rather be.

Trouble is that the costs of actually going are a small part of the true cost.

The cost of registering, entering qualifiers, stabling at qualifying shows and transport far outweigh the HOYS and Olympia costs.

[another twist]

So in another twist how do all you out there feel about the removal of the card and the £5 levy per class per show!! - it's in the pipeline

[what more]

another said:

So in another twist how do all you out there feel about the removal of the card and the £5 levy per class per show!! - it's in the pipeline

Most shows charge extra to enter the olympia classes anyway, is this going to be added on top?? That almost puts these classes in line with the astronomical charges to enter HOYS classes.

[Caroline]

rtk said:

aimee said:

Hoys cost £65 for stabling (one night only) and £75 to enter. The first prize is £75 and it only goes down to 5th. You are cramped into a tiny area with not much seating for spectators unless they are there at 7am in the morning and then dont move.

Olympia costs nothing to enter and nothing for stabling you are treated like royalty. You have a superb arena to do your show in and nearly everyone who buys a ticket can get to see the proceedings.

I know where I would rather be.

Trouble is that the costs of actually going are a small part of the true cost.

The cost of registering, entering qualifiers, stabling at qualifying shows and transport far outweigh the HOYS and Olympia costs.

That happens with any class wherever you go, not just Olympia or HOYs.

[what more]

Caroline said:

rtk said:

Trouble is that the costs of actually going are a small part of the true cost.

The cost of registering, entering qualifiers, stabling at qualifying shows and transport far outweigh the HOYS and Olympia costs.

That happens with any class wherever you go, not just Olympia or HOYs.

Yes but you are not paying for the international show jumpers costs like we end up doing at HOYS. Thats what all the money they collect from the showing lot goes on, paying for the international SJ's to attend, they dont have to pay all the costs the showing peeps do!!

[pom pom]

I agree 'actually' i should have asaid substandard show not amatuers show, i got my words mixed up, but thankyou for understanding what I meant.

[highland]

If you have to ride the qualified pony what happens if you have a broken leg?

[joking]

You get the nice guy at the fracture clinic to set it in a" good position" with canary yellow plaster and get an artistic friend to paint the bottom bit to look like a jodphur/long boot!!! Thats the only way your pony would be able to compete at Olympia if you should break your leg under the new rules! Cant see them giving special dispensation for anything happening like that! ;D

[rtk]

Just out of interest what happens in other disciplines if you qualify for Olympia, HOYS or whatever their equivalent competition. Can you replace the rider in a Dressage, Showjumping, Eventing or Endurance combination.

What I mean is, does the horse qualify or the partnership.

[guest today]

Claire said:

Entries have certainly dwindled since M&M's went to HOYS, only 5 Section D's in Olympia class at NPS Area 14 this year for example, and surely this rule will reduce numbers further.

Well I don't know what obscure shows you go to but HOYS classes have been filled to bursting point in the west country

[749312j]

rtk said:

Just out of interest what happens in other disciplines if you qualify for Olympia, HOYS or whatever their equivalent competition. Can you replace the rider in a Dressage, Showjumping, Eventing or Endurance combination.

What I mean is, does the horse qualify or the partnership.

Showing is not eventing, etc its showing and in every showing discipline it is the horse that qualifies, not the rider.

[sarahp]

guest said:

Claire said:

Entries have certainly dwindled since M&M's went to HOYS, only 5 Section D's in Olympia class at NPS Area 14 this year for example, and surely this rule will reduce numbers further.

Well I don't know what obscure shows you go to but HOYS classes have been filled to bursting point in the west country

she was talking about the olympia classes having poor numbers not the hoys (ie numbers have dwindled since hoys came in as people do hoys not olympia)

[Welsh Cob Rider]

Why is it that people do HOYS instead of Olympia classes ??

To me, Olympia carries much more prestige. And as Aimee pointed out, costs less when you get there. Personally I would much prefer to qualify for Olympia than HOYS . And that is definitely what my own goal for my welsh cob will be (one day I hope !).

There seems to be an awful lot of fuss about this new rule - but I really dont understand why there is so much fuss. None of the producers will be out of a job, there are plenty of different classes, different type of ponies/horses to show, etc. After all, there are more than M&M's in the showing world, there is nothing stopping producers riding hunters, coloureds, hacks, etc etc (as many of them do already) as well as the hairies.

Most of us would be ecstatic to have one pony of Olympia standard - so dont complain if you have two, just take it in turns each year and maybe try doing some other disciplines with the other pony for variety. And be happy that you are lucky enough to have such wonderful ponies !!

[Agree]

Very well said WCR!

[dont agree]

If you happen to be lucky enough to have two Olympia ponies, why should you leave one at home. It makes sense to take two and save on expenses you would also stand a better chance or is that the problem. Are their people out there that do not think you should be in the position or having more than one Olympia standard pony. They will be the only winners in this game.

Is so they not only want to cut out the competition also get rid of a few talented riders, and super ponies in one fail swoop.

I thought the idea was to increase the entries not deplete them. There are plenty of riders out there who have more than one pony.

WCR this rule would obviously not affect you as you obviously ride Welsh cobs, but as I said there a plenty who ride more than one breed and it will definately affect them.

To me this will make the competition a farce as it will not alway be the best combination winning as some ponies will have to be left at home.

[Guestless]

Welsh said:

Why is it that people do HOYS instead of Olympia classes ??

To me, Olympia carries much more prestige.

You are absolutely right - it is more prestigious to get to Olympia than HOYS (although qualifying for either is fabulous). I imagine HOYS being earlier in the winter is more attractive to many people.

I've never attempted any qualifiers although I may have a go next year and I must say being able to rough my native off after HOYS seems a much easier prospect than trying to keep her in show condition to mid December. I do like to keep mine as naturally as possible though - I guess it is easier for those who keep their ponies in during the winter.

Re the comment about numbers forward - I would imagine the judges presiding at individual qualifiers has a bearing on the number of entries.

[Claire Smalley]

Here I go again - and will probably get jumped on again for the following!!!

From my own experience and just my personal interpretation of things, I think what has happened re: numbers of entries in Olympia classes, is that since HOYS put on M&M classes, most of the newer people to showing have decided it is a good idea to have a mountain and moorland pony rather than a show pony or show hunter pony, as they are so versatile, and HOYS has always been most people's aim especially if they are new to the game and not a perhaps more dedicated M&M person, who is more interested in breed type etc. I am certainly not being derogatory about these people, as they have greatly helped to make M&M's more popular, which must be good for the individual breeds, but they perhaps do not hold Olympia in such esteme as people who have been showing natives for a long time, way before HOYS introduced their classes. After all, as some of you have mentioned, it is easier to keep a native looking good until October (although my lead rein darty was rather woolly!!!) rather than December, and perhaps they have never experienced Olympia or have choosen an M&M for other reasons. For many years, Olympia was the only thing for natives to qualify for, so of course it was THE competition that everyone strived to get to. I know from my own experience, what an amazing feeling it is to ride through that tunnel into a packed arena with that Christmas atmosphere - unsurpasable!!

I also feel that it is unfair to say that producers could change classes if they found themselves with less clients, but as everyone knows, it takes a very special person to be successful enough to attract clients without specialising. Most producers specialise in one or two areas, and to be at the top of your field you have to be totally dedicated to showing that particular type of pony. I know there are a few top producers who have quite a variety of ponies/horses, but I know if I was asked to find a top small hunter or intermediate worker, I would be a bit lost, but I would feel much more confident of buying a top M&M. Anyway, why should they change if they are happy producing natives? Has Michael Schumaker (can't spell that!!!) ever won a Rally Car race?

[Well said again]

A very good post and couldnt of put it better Claire.

[Welsh Cob Rider]

Few more thoughts ....

If you are lucky enough to have not one but two potential Olympia standard ponies, there is nothing stopping you taking both to qualifiers up until the point where you qualify one of them. The rule does not say you cannot ride 2 in qualifiers, just that you cannot ride 2 at the final (or that is what has been speculated to date, obviously actual details yet to be revealed by NPS). So you can still have increased chance of qualifying, and show both your ponies at once. And I am sure if you are really determined for both ponies to go to Olympia in a year, and you do all the work at home, you could quite easily find someone to continue doing qualifiers if you do qualify one pony. If these really are both top class ponies, and you have therefore already been doing very well in qualifiers with both - I am sure plenty of people would jump at the chance of riding the pony.

Are there really that many amateur riders who ride multiple ponies of this standard ?? I would think it is very few. Most amateurs are people who are working fulltime (or studying) and juggling horses with work and maybe family too. And trying to find time to produce and show one horse at this standard is challenging enough.

As for comparing riding a coloured vs M&M to F1 vs rally car racing .... I disagree. The basics of riding any horse is the same, whether it is a hunter, coloured, show pony or M&M. It is still the same type of animal, just slight different shape and size. The differences come in turnout and the details of the show class. But these really are only details, and I dont see any reason why a producer who already breaks and trains young horses and shows one type of show horse could not quite easily show another type of horse.

As for keeping them in show condition for December - a good rug and a snuggy hood and you are sorted My boy has been living in these since October, and (before being recently clipped) his coat was flat, shiny and not too wooly at all. If I am riding over the winter I would always keep a horse in at night and feed them twice a day, so no more effort to just feed them a bit more to keep in show condidion.

Good luck to anyone actually going to Olympia this year !! And good luck to everyone tackling the qualifiers next year too.

[Guestless]

Welsh said:

The basics of riding any horse is the same, whether it is a hunter, coloured, show pony or M&M. It is still the same type of animal, just slight different shape and size.

I agree with most of your post, but I do think producing M&Ms is a bit different to your average hunter. You are talking about 9 different breeds with different ways of going as opposed to a class where all horses are expected to have similar movement. IMO that is where the danger is when owners/producers move in to M&Ms as they can (not saying they all do) school the ponies out of the natural movement and have them move in a way that is not correct for their breed type. All it takes is a judge to come along that isn't familiar enough with all the breed standards and lo and behold a beautiful (but not typical) moving pony can win an M&M class.

[Welsh Cob Rider]

And one other thing ....

"To me this will make the competition a farce as it will not alway be the best combination winning as some ponies will have to be left at home."

There are many ponies "left at home" and not shown in Olympia classes every year for any number of reasons that may be better examples of the breed and better ridden ponies than the ones in the final - such as cost, time, at stud breeding, concentrating on other disciplines, etc etc. The competition cannot guarantee the best ponies in the country at the final - just the best ponies out of the ones that have been shown at the qualifiers !

[Welsh Cob Rider]

guestless - I was talking about M&M producers branching out into other types of ponies/horses, not into other types of M&M's. This would not help their situation with this rule would it

And anyway, any of these things can be learnt easily. Most jobs required some degree of flexbility and being prepared to move with the times. And learning new skills and information is all part of that.

[stressful but great]

Welsh said:

As for keeping them in show condition for December - a good rug and a snuggy hood and you are sorted My boy has been living in these since October, and (before being recently clipped) his coat was flat, shiny and not too wooly at all. If I am riding over the winter I would always keep a horse in at night and feed them twice a day, so no more effort to just feed them a bit more to keep in show condidion.

Good luck to anyone actually going to Olympia this year !! And good luck to everyone tackling the qualifiers next year too.

Welsh Cob Rider, most of your post was quite good, up until the quote that i have left above. I can only assume that perhaps you haven't been to Olympia with a pony because you seem to think that keeping a coat is very easy. I guess it just goes to prove guestless point about knowing individual breed types. Your welsh cob might not grow much of a coat, perhaps you should try keeping one of the hairier breeds up for December, Fells, Highlands, Dales, Exmoors, Dartmoors. It is extremely stressfull for all concerned. Having spoken to several owners of ponies that have qualified this year, myself included, i think this point is the single most stressful of all. We are all very aware that our ponies will take centre stage on Monday 18th December & that not only will we be there for ourselves & all of our individual connections, but as a shop window for the breeds.

[Pinto]

is there such a thing as your average hunter guestless, i dont think so

[want a refund]

WCR - has never produced a horse for Olympia, although she has bred one had one produced for her.

I havent seen that producer of her pony riding hacks or riding horses and shouldnt think she would want to either as she is very good at what she does.

Why should good Olympia ponies be left at home just because of a ruling which will only apply to NPS Olympias. If it is such a good rule, why dont hey apply it to all open classes?

If a rider qualifies a pony at the Spring Festival, and has entered for the Olympia at say Windsor on another pony (the entries close very early) as they will now be excluded from riding at windsor are the NPS going to refund the entries for other pony, I hope so.