Rude judging

[Milliesmum]

It all comes back to respect, doesn't it? Respect for the judge, for your fellow competitors, for show organisers, stewards, and everyone who gives their time up for free so we can have a jolly day out!! And self respect! Where's that gone? To be able to smile and hold your head up when it doesn't go your way, knowing that you're taking the best pony home, no matter what anyone else thinks!

[stephjw1]

hear hear MM

[Giddie]

Like others on here l have tried not to get involved in this discussion, because it does always appear as "Judge Bashing".

However also like others l have found it hard to keep my trap shut.

CREMELLOSOCIETY

I would just like to say here we go again........this seems to be a familiar aguement you and l end up in, but this time l am not going to get into battles with anyone and try to explain to the best of my ability how it feels from the other perspective that of the competitor. Just to say Emmajane l did think that we had drawn a line under this but as you have reinvented the wheel again and l quote " I had ago on another website about judge bashing". I can only assume you are still referring to the judge that is going to be judging at your show...I would like to say this particular incident was NOT judge bashing and was totally misinterpreted and forcely represented by yourself CREMELLOSOCIETY!! This was just an honest opinion (I hastened to add l was asked for it) about a judge. I have to say Emmajane again you have just tried to manipulate the thread to meet your own needs. I do not accept you saying, if this situation is the one you are talking about that l was judge bashing when only expressing an opinion. You shouldn't be so protective just because this person is to judge at your show. Why don't you practise what you preach and allow others to have an opinion. Just to make this entirely clear it was NOT l repeat NOT about his judging, it was about his manner and behaviour when NOT in a showing situation slamming my ponies off, ironically most of whom he has not ever seen. His judgement was based on the fact that the ponies weren't of the breeding that he bred or liked..

Now judges you cannot tell me that is right for him to be allowed to do that, especially when not asked for and in front of other people..Weather the person in question was joking or not, l found it offensive and certainly told him this to his face. NOW MY MAIN RANT IS OVER !!

HALFPASS

I have to say l do agree with you entirely on your comments regarding competitors manners and behaviour. Thank goodness l have always been a good sport and accept losing gracefully despite my competitive streak. Any person on here that knows me and some of those judges on here will confirm my sportsmanlike behaviour (just to note praised for this on 3 ocassions last season by three judges, two of whom l know come on here).

I guess my problem comes when judges aren't always honourable and totally honest / genuine and are not judging what they see on the day. I am sure that you and Emmajane , both being judges will admit that not all judges are whiter than white. Please note l am not saying that it should be splashed over the internet but when blantant cheating has occured l really think that morals plays little place in the arguement. To me cheating can be interpreted as described above, judges awarding points to people doing their show and the judge has the back to them and can't possible judge the class appropriately..Now weather this is true l can't say but l can say from my own experience that this happened in a championship with a medal at stake whereby the judge didn't look at my pony once during the championship. Video evidence to prove this. It was also obvious who was the likely winner and this had been bantered around for a week or so before the show. Now we know that that happens frequently but even more concerning is that the animal concerned looked absolutely dreadful. Having like yourselves been around horse and ponies for many years l at least have some idea what a nice animal should look like. I really think the other senario that is logical to mention is that the chosen pony is just so opposite to the judges breed type, where our pony was just like what he breeds. Our pony had never been placed out of the first two places in 25 outings until this time even winning several championships abroard..I only mention this to highlight that she is a decent pony herself, but accept that this wasn't always going to be that way. Now the losing isn't the fact here it was the prediction of the winner before they even turned up on the showground.

Another angle is spectators and other competitors have a lot of knowledge and were all totally dismayed by the result...CAN WE ALL BE WRONG!!

Purely by writing this sounds like sour grapes but that is not the case and will never be. I will not show again under someone that l consider a cheat, and infact have decided not to go to two shows this year because the said judge is judging.

It is of course only fair to say that most judges are straight and will give you a fair showing !!excuse the pun. I have also highlighted these good judges on an open forum such as this.

As for being a bad loser, that will never be the case, and having been in racing for many years..losing is generally the name of the game.

Please read this in the spirit it is meant and not as a dig at anyone in particular, if that were the case then l would be mentioning the judges in question.

[halfpass]

I agree with allot of what you have said giddie the one thing that I will say is that things look totally different from the centre of the ring, I will give you a for-instance, I had seen this particular pony at several shows and was totally baffled why it was never placed higher, I then was judging at a show and this pony came before me, it really through one leg which I had never noticed from the outside of the ring but having it before me I saw what every other judge had seen, so what seems obvious from the outside may not be the whole story

[shelleyj]

you are right, the view from in the ring is often different, however there is a difference between having an opinion and being blatantly bent! As you suggested hp we are now careful of the judges we go under - with the price of diesel we can't afford to travel to a show where we know the judge is not straight!! We vote with our feet (and our money)

[smokeycott]

HEAR!!!! HEAR!!!!! SHOWS WONT BOOK JUDGES AGAIN IF THEY DONT ATTRACT COMPETITORS, NOT GOOD FOR THEIR FUNDS!!! VOTE WITH YOUR FEET AND LET THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ATTRACTED BY THOSE JUDGES WIN BUT IT WONT BE A TRUE WIN AS THEY MIGHT BE THE ONLY ONES THERE, JUST HOPE YOU DONT MISS OUT ON THOSE RARE QUALIFICATION TICKETS.

[halfpass]

well thank god I have been asked to judge all the shows I did last year by popular request from the competitors, does that make me a good or a straight, if its the latter then that will be a first

[Giddie]

I think your right Halfpass and it is so easy to miss the things that aren't so obvious from outside the ring..but it is just as obvious when it works in return when the judge isn't being totally honourable. I do appreciate that judges give there time up to judge but competitors also have to give up a lot of time and like many of us have to work very hard full time to enjoy the ponies l have, only to be basically lied to about my pony who l think is quality and has the right atttributes, evidenced by her outstanding record which speaks for itself. Of course l am not so pompous to believe that she is unbeatable of course she is, and has generally deserved her placings when this has happened, as she has been beaten by better ponies on the day.

However, like l said thank goodness most judges are worth their weight in gold and l have a great deal of respect for them but professionalism honesty and respect for the organisation they belong to should be a priority when in that position of power weather that be inside the ring or out.

I guess as someone has already highlighted the better judges will always shine through

[studmuffin]

To slate my comments as RUBBISH is in itself very RUDE!!
Am I not entitled to my opinion,without you calling it RUBBISH!!!!!
or are you so much higher up the ladder than me,that you feel that you can justify this remark !!
This a site for people to voice their opinions on their experiences,if you dont agree with it in principle,why are you getting involved ?
As long as my horse goes well,I'm happy,but blatant cheating spoils the sport for everyone,and complaining would get you nowhere.
I suppose you never claimed the benefits of being a top judge,did you never get on the panels??? these judges are rewarded for what they do,see h& h ref Stuart Hollings,a very good judge,do you think he goes all over the world for nothing ? out of his own pocket?
So I suggest you stick with riding clubs,it sounds as though you have found your niche,leave the rest to the professionals

[alan]

agree with halfpass and well said studmuffin. its about time certain people stopped making out they are something they ARE NOT. you are always mentioning 'when you judge' what affiliated panels are you actually on or have applied for? have you ever qualified ponies for hoys, international or even bsps or puk champs? its abit like taxi drivers making out they are lewis hamilton!

[halfpass]

Well Alan yes to all of the above have also in my younger years show jumped to AIT and evented to 3* ridden dressage up to Advanced medium hold a BHSAI and NPS stud grooms diploma. Grand parents and parents bred horses before I was born and won my first lead-rein class at the age of three so yes I do feel qualified to comment.To quantify what you have said studmuffin you only have to look at this section to see that there are three other threads on bad judging and as I have said earlier how many do you see on rude/ bad competitors I will also say at least you have the courage of your convictions and become a member for which you must be applauded, and yes I will stick to the riding clubs and leave the bit*hiness to the professionals

[studmuffin]

mr halfpass,if thats your CV I would stick with riding club,or you will be out of your league

[super vixen]

Stud Muffin we must have been in the same classes!! totally agree with you also agree with those that comment on rude competitors.....we all know who they are!! Those of us that have shown for over forty years are more than aware of both the decline in standards and the blatent biased judging that is sometimes so obvious that we are all aghast that nothing is done.
Surely we are there to show the horse not to "show off" to all and sundry as to who we know!!
I have personally witnessed a top(so called) producer walk along the back of a line up to a horse they had sold recently and low and behold the horse was moved up the line regardless of the fact it was totally outclassed. It was lovely to see both the producer (who one the class) her client and the judge having a drink after the class.................NOT!!!

[alan]

halfpass, you've misunderstood me. i am by no means questioning you have greatest respect for you. i am wanting to know the actual abilities of cremellosociety. time after time a hornets nest is stirred up and i think its about time cremellosociety put cards on table and stopped making out to be something they are not. i have found on here that genuine judges are more than helpfull and make constructed comments occasionally whereas a certain person is always giving forth.

[halfpass]

then please except my apologies Alan
studmuffin thank you for proving my piont so clearly infact you have done such a good job I feel I need no need to say anything more.

[sprocket]

is Mrs Cremello is on a different planet judging by her other questions in other discussion forums, she is obviously an amateur at this game...bless her!!

[thecremellosociety]

I think its about time poeple grew up. i have no need to tell people where i have been and what i have done, another post twisted round to get at me again, you obviously dont like fair shows and fair judging, Im not going to broadcast what i have done to a load of strangers, Which other questions are we looking at here as i cant see any, Oppps you better be careful bring up issues from another forum, thats not allowed you know, Here we go witch hunt again !!!! Cant Be denied can it really, i have made comments that are fair and vaible and you all go after me again, but sad really you ought to make better use of your time, you obviously dont like what ive said, thats fair enough, but as said before this is an open forum and i will speak my mind, Amateur i may be but HONEST i bloody wellam which is alot more than can be said for alot of people !!!

[thecremellosociety]

Actually I have Re Red my posts from earlier in this forum, and there is nothing in them stirring, i think you need to re read them before personally attacking me on a public forum !!!!

[Giddie]

The cremellosociety..as l said not a get at you or anyone but like you just speaking the truth..However it was you and only you that wanted to draw a line regarding issues from other forums and then you go an use it to demonstrate your commitment to the judges, in someway trying to show everyone how strong you are by standing out from the crowd...naturally one is going to defend themselves when a whole load of lies is being maliciously spread. No one on here is trying to cause a stir or personally attack anyone but after all you are talking about fairness and honesty..Thats just what we all believe, we have been speaking the truth, which we all know hurts sometimes, but lets just say you are adult enough to get into this form of discussion so be adult enough to accept that you are not always right and will sometimes be critisised.

I really don't find it hard to believe why it is you they keep attacking, perhaps it is just the way you try to explain things and that they come ou/read wrong. What l would say though is just look at what was said in an earlier post "NOT EVERYONE CAN BE WRONG" !!

Come on Emmajane lighten up....

[Milliesmum]

OK, this thread has once again become personal.

The subject of the thread is rude judging. Please stay on topic.

I will not allow any one person to be targeted by several different people, as that seems to be going along the lines of bullying, which is a subject I feel particularly strongly about.

If you need to question an individual's credentials, please do it with the club or society concerned.

I can and will lock or remove threads as I feel necessary.

[thecremellosociety]

Giddie the comments that i replied to were from the guests and spocket, i dont have a issue with you at all you are like me, both speak our minds.

[sophsmum]

This is all getting very very boring! MM please close it down as I think it is giving the forum a bad name. Rightly or wrongly everyone is allowed an opinion and at the end of the day that is all it is someones personal opinion. Unfortunately, thats life and the way of the world. Sometimes I think its best to take a back seat and let everyone get on with it!

[Milliesmum]

I will leave it open for now, but if the personal comments continue it will be locked.

[Giddie]

I think you are right to do that MM...As after all it is personal opinions and unfortunately if you are expressing personal opinions, natural it will get personal because it is attacking ones thought processess !!. Blimy thats good for this time of the morning don't you think ??

[Milliesmum]

I wouldn't want to stop people from expressing their opinions. However there are personal comments in this thread which in my opinion, are close to crossing the line. So I will be monitoring, and would hope that people can have an adult discussion without personal sniping.

[halfpass]

blimey giddy did you have a gallon of pro+ it would of taken at least the third cup of coffee and two f*gs to have got that out of me and not sure if that would of been enough.
As for Thecremellosociety's judging ability I could not comment as I have never had a pony before her, but I will say that there have been no derogatory comments on here for the shows she has judged at and you can bet your arse there would of been if there had been a problem

[raceboy]

Hi getting back to the original post "rude" judging I judge myself and I always make it a point of watching all competitors from left to right ...never whirling around just in case I miss some one and when I have my final line up I also make a point of talking to everyone in the line up and hopefully give some feedback ...but never be a critic... I understand that you all spend a lot of time producing your animal to get to the ring..... I also talk to the crowd,telling them what I am looking for in the class I am judging but never talk about an individual animal...I think talking to the crowd will be and should be the norm.in the future.

[stephjw1]

raceboy you sound like a very fair judge

[Giddie]

Sounds good to me Raceboy..Just what l would expect as a competitor, it is also great that you generalise and NOT PERSONALISE !!. I also like what you say about not being a critic (although l do feel constuctive critism is always valid. I must say after recieving some good critisim last year it certainly improved my ponies preformance having taken the advise of the judge in question.)I like the way you recoginise the hard work that we all have to put in, this is very encouraging for the novice and newcomer. As for explaining to the crowd and telling them what you are looking for in a particular class i think is a positive way forward, and l would personally like this to be a part of all shows especially those at county level.

Where are you judging next

[smokeycott]

raceboy what do you judge and where you judgeing next!!!!!!!!!!!! im sure we will all be there now!!!!!!!!!!!!?? Ha ha!! you got lots of new friends now.