ets
Newbie
Posts: 39
|
Post by ets on Feb 7, 2011 22:56:40 GMT
lol... no way have you upset me.. i opened this thread for that reason, where as my horse fits the bill for small hack, ok sometimes her temper can let us down, hot headed to say the least, dare i say, typical chestnut mare...! the hack show be of the highest in manners and temperment! lol... i am glad you have pointed the saddle out... only recently did i realise i should wear a tweed! did you mean to say 'shouldn't wear a tweed' you should wear a navy jacket for Hack Classes... . this is a brilliant thread by the way, I am also venturing into hack classes this year and find this discussion really interesting!!! apologies, yes, while you are correct you should wear a navy jacket, as i have done in the past... this also wrong as i am male and should wear a tweed, ladies wear blue.. :-) |
|
ets
Newbie
Posts: 39
|
Post by ets on Feb 7, 2011 23:15:44 GMT
liberty light is a fantastic looking horse, no one can argue... the dark bay mare is liberty belle.. born the 4th july no connection  |
|
ets
Newbie
Posts: 39
|
Post by ets on Feb 7, 2011 23:20:46 GMT
interesting points pennyh regarding Liberty Light and the possibility of it doing well in Intermediates today. I tend to agree that it would because of its elegance and correctness. However I also agree with Handcanter in that the type of animals entering the ring may not actually be of perfect type but be perfectly adequate based on guidelines for type. The judges opinion and judging guidelines should sort them out in their order of merit according to conformation etc. cindy3 you need to just jump in!!! Us old folks were all riding in adult classes at 17 and definitely 18 as there were no intermediate classes then. it did us absolutely no harm and not everyone had years of experience either. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about? excellent point, i only started riding at 24, was scared of horse until then... lol.. never had the pleasure of riding ponies. i learnt on a 16.2 tb mare, who could buck, rear, and bronco.. a nightmare to hack out.. but also excelled at ridden veteran at the age of 30, sadly gone to other fields now... :-( |
|
zizz
Junior Member
Posts: 68
|
Post by zizz on Feb 9, 2011 12:08:23 GMT
Just to put a cat amongst the pigeons as it were, what are your thoughts on coloured horses competeing in open hack classes?
|
|
|
|
Post by thecremellosociety on Feb 9, 2011 14:43:39 GMT
Providing they were of the light type and elegance of a solid coloured hack i dont see a problem, all horses should be judged on a silhoutee basis where by you look past the colour and any optical illusions that can be caused by white markings, a good horse isnt a bad colour !
|
|
|
|
Post by pigsear on Feb 9, 2011 14:56:23 GMT
Providing they were of the light type and elegance of a solid coloured hack i dont see a problem, all horses should be judged on a silhoutee basis where by you look past the colour and any optical illusions that can be caused by white markings, a good horse isnt a bad colour ! Well said! |
|
|
|
Post by hs on Feb 9, 2011 21:49:21 GMT
if the hack is meant to a snap shot of a time when riders rode on rotten row and the hack was almost part of courtship and elegance, maybe the ladies should ride saddle saddle in the hack class, but then I guess it would be difficult to find a suitable ride judge.
dora's youngster is beautiful and I see the elegance in her body and in her face too, she really stands out. i don't want to be horrible to the owners of the chestnuts as it maybe that they look different in the flesh, but dora's horse looks in a different league.
I also agree with the comment regarding the saddle on ets's horse it looks too far forward and makes the horse look disproportionate and does not show off the shoulder well.
|
|
|
|
Post by handcanter on Feb 10, 2011 10:46:37 GMT
a good horse is never a bad colour but I for one have yet to see a coloured that would have the right type of elegance. That said there are some good 7/8 TBs that are coloured, all very nice types but I would expect that the coloured hack will evolve in a few years time.
That said the gentle folk of Rotten Row would not have been seen on a coloured horse, they were for Gypsies and circuses only in the hey day of the Row.
Pictures above are very nice but neither animal has the length of rein to make true elegance. Very nice all the same and would not look out of place ridden truly from behind with the lifted forehand.
|
|
|
|
Post by LucyHebditch on Feb 10, 2011 11:51:41 GMT
Coloureds doing hacks would be more than acceptable if they are a hack! The problem is with coloureds, they come from the traditional/cob background and you always tend to find that 'cob' bit of them somewhere, even if they are of a show pony type, it always comes through. So that would be the only problem with entering a coloured into hack classes
|
|
|
|
Post by lils on Feb 10, 2011 12:21:52 GMT
Coloureds doing hacks would be more than acceptable if they are a hack! The problem is with coloureds, they come from the traditional/cob background and you always tend to find that 'cob' bit of them somewhere, even if they are of a show pony type, it always comes through. So that would be the only problem with entering a coloured into hack classes Cindy Simms Grandmother Betty Skelton Qualified a Coloured HAck for HOYS in the 70's, as did a friend of mine about 5/6 years ago  |
|
|
|
Post by pencaedu on Feb 10, 2011 12:29:56 GMT
sorry lrh123 & handcanter - but I think that is a sweeping generalisation. Our 4 y/o coloured is by a 7/8 coloured Arab our of a full TB mare. that means he has 1/16 of 'something else' in him - and I defy you to find it. His natural class, a this point (subject to measurement) would be hacks - but if we see hacks as being a 'traditional' class - then surely they should neither be coloured - or side saddle, as they were the gentleman's mount.
|
|
|
|
Post by dizzydora on Feb 10, 2011 13:47:15 GMT
if the hack is meant to a snap shot of a time when riders rode on rotten row and the hack was almost part of courtship and elegance, maybe the ladies should ride saddle saddle in the hack class, but then I guess it would be difficult to find a suitable ride judge. dora's youngster is beautiful and I see the elegance in her body and in her face too, she really stands out. i don't want to be horrible to the owners of the chestnuts as it maybe that they look different in the flesh, but dora's horse looks in a different league. I also agree with the comment regarding the saddle on ets's horse it looks too far forward and makes the horse look disproportionate and does not show off the shoulder well. HS- thank you very much for your kind words about vesper ;D her breeder Desiree of the Aquarius stud told us she was something that little bit extra special when we went to see her and we certainly think she was right. Vesper will be taught to take a side saddle when old enough to, so hopefully from 2013 onwards you'll see us gracing the rings in the large hack classes ;D |
|
|
|
Post by LucyHebditch on Feb 10, 2011 14:26:05 GMT
I didn't say that a coloured can't be a hack, i was trying to say that not many are because of the traditional part that comes through. But, of course it's possible
|
|
|
|
Post by clobo121082 on Feb 10, 2011 15:07:46 GMT
What a lovely thread to read and very very interesting. One thing I can say from a ride judging persepctive is what you may see from the sidelines is not always what you may feel when you actually ride the horse! I do agree that horses can do both well in intermediate and hack classes but there are many that are purely an int or a large pony as such and people should recognise this. I do also think riding in both int and hack classes there is a vast difference in the horses way of going from intermediate to hack classes and the way people ride. Personally I like an intermediate that sits up and goes and often these ponies are use to being set up and ridden in a certain way. A hack to me should ride with complete elegance and be light in the hand. I think my old int is a true int. He also qualified for HOYS in the hacks but for me is too pony in type and also he did not ride in the correct manner for a ride judge. He was strong on the hand and liked to be 'held' as such - he did not ride on a cotton thread! We always got pulled high but ended up moving down the line after the ride! a picture just cos I love him!  |
|
|
|
Post by sallie on Feb 10, 2011 15:20:53 GMT
is that the stanley grange animal clobo - that i put up to win at Royal windsor a few years ago?
|
|
|
|
Post by clobo121082 on Feb 10, 2011 15:33:37 GMT
He won it three years in a row! must have been 2005,06 and 07 if I can remember, seems ages ago now. He came up from last place pull in in 07 and 6th place in 06. Who says judges don't move ponies around! Sorry totally hijacked the thread for a second.
|
|
|
|
Post by sallie on Feb 10, 2011 15:52:55 GMT
yep i move them around!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by thecremellosociety on Feb 10, 2011 16:33:40 GMT
What about the 99.8% Pintabians x with a tb that would be fine enough if all other qualities there to be a hack, dont agree that all coloured come from a cob back ground as many coloureds come through the sabino not to mention the american quarter horse / mustangs, they are most definatly NOT of tinkler/ gypsey/ cob origion, i feel that while we are talking about keeping tradition, the modernisation and utilisation of horses means that ineveitably there will be more coloured horses of non gypsy cob origin slowly working their way through the ranks, and something judges are going to have to accept, i would never penalise a good horse for being a less than uniform traditional colour.
|
|
|
|
Post by hs on Feb 10, 2011 21:56:47 GMT
so what is the ladies equivalent of the hack, I thought the ladies rode an elegant hack too and they held hands? sorry lrh123 & handcanter - but I think that is a sweeping generalisation. Our 4 y/o coloured is by a 7/8 coloured Arab our of a full TB mare. that means he has 1/16 of 'something else' in him - and I defy you to find it. His natural class, a this point (subject to measurement) would be hacks - but if we see hacks as being a 'traditional' class - then surely they should neither be coloured - or side saddle, as they were the gentleman's mount. |
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Feb 11, 2011 9:59:04 GMT
I know nothing about hacks and different class types - I breed Welsh As and Ds - and have had much less ridden experience than many on here but I've just read through the whole of this thread and a few points came to mind.
In my riding days I was taught by a dressage lady on my then D and strove for the light, silky, ride on a fingertip type of ride mentioned a few pages ago - surely ALL ridden horses should be expected to go like this, not just hacks? On her good days (she could be quirky) that D would gallop up the long side of a 60m arena and I could sit upright at the quarter marker and halt at A or C with very little more in the way of aids than me using my body. The same dressage lady taught my daughter along with hers and they had to learn, in an enclosed arena of course, to control their ponies with no reins, just body and leg aids.
I LOVE to watch a good ride judge at work and wish they had more in our classes, sadly now only the RWAS use one. Before the days of qualifiers being the only thing that mattered the RASE and Northleach used to have them too - I remember a big hunter judge putting a 13hh C Ridden Ch at the latter one year, they made a point of using non-breed judges as ride judges. Daughter now has a 17hh and has done a few RH classes just for fun although he's not ideal in type and I so admire the ride judges in those sort of classes who have to get on anything presented to them and assess their ride - I'm pleased to say her horse normally got a good report!
As regards coloured hacks - colour genetics are more my area! In the Rotten Row era the only tobianos in the UK were gypsy ponies so coloured hacks would not be authentic to the era, if that matters. It's only latterly that tobianos have become popular and much more quality ones have been bred, in my youth they were rather looked down on.
Emmajane - it depends what you define as coloured - sabino will not lead to tobiano which is what most understand by coloured, the genes are completely different. You can get some sabinos that have lots of white but they will most likely not breed it on, the inheritance pattern is very variable and impossible to predict, unlike tobiano which is a single dominant gene.
|
|
|
|
Post by troublesome on Feb 11, 2011 19:23:39 GMT
ets, I have seen your horse and personally think you look to big on her and it takes after from the elegance of what is meant by a 'hack'. but who are you to judge..... |
|
|
|
Post by lastchance on Feb 11, 2011 21:21:48 GMT
What a fabulous thread this is, and what a superb model of a hack Liberty Light was.
I'm going back several decades myself too but a couple of other hacks I can remember adoring at the time were Tomadachi and Duboise - both ridden by Robert Oliver. Tomadachi was a prolific winner, as was Duboise as a 4 year old before seeming to disappear unfortunately from the scene.
|
|
|
|
Post by LucyHebditch on Feb 11, 2011 21:29:24 GMT
ets, I have seen your horse and personally think you look to big on her and it takes after from the elegance of what is meant by a 'hack'. but who are you to judge..... The OP asked why she was down the line at shows, this person is giving her an answer. The OP asked, therefore, we're all here to judge |
|
sc
Junior Member
Posts: 95
|
Post by sc on Feb 12, 2011 14:31:03 GMT
What a fabulous thread this is, and what a superb model of a hack Liberty Light was. I'm going back several decades myself too but a couple of other hacks I can remember adoring at the time were Tomadachi and Duboise - both ridden by Robert Oliver. Tomadachi was a prolific winner, as was Duboise as a 4 year old before seeming to disappear unfortunately from the scene. Duboise didn't vanish..he became a very successful Riding Horse for Rosemary King, with whom he had a very long life |
|
|
|
Post by oliviabethany on Feb 16, 2011 16:00:27 GMT
This is our hack. She is 2 this year and the pics were taken as a yearling last season ;D  very smart love her |
|
|
|
Post by hollycane on Feb 20, 2011 20:54:42 GMT
Duboise was much more a riding horse type and very nice too. I saw Tomadachi in his retirement and he oozed charm and movement. Am trying to dig out some otehr old hack photos and will post so you can see the evolution of the hack. Looking forward to this season.
|
|
|
|
Post by josie1234 on Feb 21, 2011 12:17:09 GMT
Im new to hacks and I have just bought myself a pba who is 3 in april. Someone said to me you dont want an over height small in the large hacks as you wont get noticed? He is already 15hh and I bought him to make a small hack. Is it true you dont get noticed if you are on a small large hack?
|
|
|
|
Post by CarolineNelson on Feb 21, 2011 13:00:43 GMT
1) he will still grow. Probably right up to when he is 6 or 7.
2) if he is quality, typy, has carriage, and education, he will not be outclassed.
3) gradually, the 'giants' which really belong to the RH section are being weeded out.
4) NO top-class show horse or pony has to be 'up to height' ie: overheight) to suceed.
..........because "a good little 'un can always beat a good big 'un!"
|
|
|
|
Post by josie1234 on Feb 21, 2011 13:52:20 GMT
Thanks shsstablemanager! I didnt agree when I was told that but I have no experiance in showing hacks so couldnt really comment. This thread has been very interesting!
|
|
|
|
Post by CarolineNelson on Feb 21, 2011 14:28:10 GMT
Josie - take him steadily and give him time to mature.
Maybe let him see a few sights this year (ie: carefully do a few in-hand classes with him, PBA and Hack Breeding).
There's no way that you can force him to stay a 'Small' just because you purchased him to make one - nor can you beef him up in the hopes that he'll end up a full 15.3.
He will be what he will be. Oh, and take time out to watch some BSHA classes this year.
The very best of luck for the future of your young horse.
|
|
