Selecting a Stallion

[Guestless]

Please add your thoughts on this. Feel free to ask any questions, but have a read of the thread in case your question has already been asked.

[Guestless]

So let's get this discussion started.

What do you consider when selecting a stallion for your mare?

My priorities are finding a stallion with qualities to complement my mare, and also potential to improve any weaknesses.

[wilmira]

A stallion that will suit my mare and a good show record or has offspring with a good show record

[drea]

I think that when you make the decision to breed from your mare that you've got to be honest with your self if no one else, and look at the points in her that could be improved on then pick your stallion accordingly, to give the foal to be born the best chance in life I also look back to the grandparents on both sides for conformation as they can often through back to them, also when choosin a stallion i like to know there track record on what they tend to throw colts or fillys if you prefer one or the other it increases your chances of what you prefer altho its not a exact science it puts the odds in your favour

[dressagemad]

It is so easy to fall in love with a stallion as they are the trend for that year or their record has been particularly good for that year, price an location or you just like the look but the stallion is only part of the equation. No matter how much you love a stallion you have to use one that compliments your mare.

As someone hoping in the near future to breed their first foal this has been drummed into me. Don't fall in love with the stallion and want to use him on your mare until it is decided he is right for your mare and will give the best outcome for the type of foal you wish to produce.

[boothsdale]

The best advice we ever had was don't just look at the stallion look at his progeny - you need to make sure he is correcting the things you need to improve in his offspring.

[Giddie]

Rose how would that equate if you have a new Stallion/colt, I guess what l am saying is that we would never have any new breeding if we all stuck to the "tried and tested" stallions..However l agree that one needs to look at the types of things that may need correcting and use a stallion accordingly. I have had so many people say to me to put my stallion on one particular mare..I don't think it will work so l am waiting for the right husgband for her.

[sarahp]

I think choosing a "one off" stallion for an individual mare, as in if you are sending her away to stud, is a slightly different process to trying to asses a new stallion/colt of your own as giddie is doing and I have in the past. In the first case all the above holds good, I'm a great believer too in looking at the stock rather than the stallion himself, but in the latter you have to have an element of suck it and see and try him out, of course on mares you think he will suit but with fingers crossed it will work. A stallion can be gorgeous in the flesh and of the most desirable bloodlines but still throw nothing of distinction, or conversely not top class in the flesh but a fantastic stock getter, you won't know until you've tried. Either way I do personally look at pedigree first and wouldn't use anything if not of bloodlines I like, then look at the stallion himself and his parents.

Just another thought - I've found going to the breed sales and watching the stock going through is a very useful pointer to what a stallion will throw - then you see the not so good ones, not just the show ring stars, and can often spot the same fault in them which you may choose to avoid.

[boothsdale]

Mar 5, 2011 7:05:52 GMT Giddie said:

Rose how would that equate if you have a new Stallion/colt, I guess what l am saying is that we would never have any new breeding if we all stuck to the "tried and tested" stallions

Very true Ray- but then it starts to be more of a case of looking at it from the other end and selecting a mare for your stallion! We have used first time sires in the past and before we do I research as much as I can into what the stallion's sire and dam, grandsires and grand dams have produced (and any other relatives I can find out about!). It is always a risk for the first couple of years though as some stallions throw what look to be super foals but that "go off" as they mature.

I would very definately second Sarah's comment that the most beautiful stallion can throw nothing of note and something you wouldn't give a second glance to can produce some wonderful stock.

[kilnstown]

I agree with Sarah and boothsdale on this, I like to see what the stallion has produced, and that to me counts more than what he looks like himself, if he has a fault but its not passed onto his offspring (I would need to see more than one) then i would consider using him.
A great example of a good breeding stallion would be the section d stallion Gristhills Tokyo Joe a lovely looking stallion, quite successful in the show ring (won a bronze and silver medal) but I don't think he was ever placed any higher than 6th at the Royal Welsh (please don't shout at me if this is wrong), he was at stud next door to me for quite a number of years and I saw all manner of mares come to him all breeds, all sizes, all types, and out of all those mares I cant ever recall seeing a bad or a plain foal, they were all consistently good, and I would not hesitate to use a young untried stallion by him. I am only a hobby breeder I breed for myself mostly but I don't breed willy nilly I take great care in choosing the stallions I use, for example when I wanted to cover a TB mare and was looking for a potential stallion I went to see 8 before i found the one that i thought would suit her the best. One of my biggest boo boos was looking at Pennal Calon Lan when he was at stud up North I really liked him but I thought there wasn't plenty of him, so I didn't book a service, then went to the cob sales and spent the whole weekend kicking myself up the bum because really liked the stock he had thrown.
So the point I'm trying to make is that its the offspring that a stallion produces is probably my biggest priority, then conformation, temperament, bloodlines, performance and everything else after that. eg colour, white socks, height.

[tigger]

I agree with all that has been said already - making sure the stallion + mare match conformationally but little has been said about temperament.
I can think of several stallions (mostly sport horses but this can be true of any breed) that at best have very questionable temperaments - and are well known for passing that on!
I would always advise someone to check out the temperament of the stallion and offspring if possible.
A friend of mine bought a sports horse foal a few years ago - 'fashionable' bloodlines, well put together and a beautiful mover. She was difficult from the start and was incredibly handy with teeth + legs at any opportunity. She persevered for some years with her but could never trust her. Only later did she find out that the stallion she was by was well known for being aggresive and for passing on this trait to his offspring.

[holiday]

I will put a few of my own thoughts down. I always work backwards from the foal, plan what I want to acheive then look at the mare in relation to any stallion choices.

I feel the mare will put a huge amount of her genes in and it is difficult to judge exactly what she will pass down (good or bad) and what she will allow a stallion to overstamp and improve until she has a couple of foals. I look for good conformation, type and bloodlines in a mare, especially in the Dam lines as she is key in the decision. It is even better for her to be successful in her own right. I know every fault that my mares hold and do not look through rose tinted glasses, only then can I realistically improve on her, which is the aim with every foal.

I would not however discount a mare who had no breeding if I liked her stamp and type. However most of ours go through a grading system with the SPSS.

Only then will I look at stallion choices. I look for movement, conformation, bloodlines but even more important to me is temperament and trainability, I want my future foals to be ridden animals not field ornaments too sharp or untrainable for the future.

After that I look at competition records, to see if he has stayed sound and proved himself. Again the Dam lines are really important to me. I would not neccessarly use the exact "type" I like as it would not always gain the result I am aiming for in a foal sometimes I will move away from what my "eye" loves and I will use a slightly different type to improve on the mare.

With using an older stallion you can play a little more safely as mentioned above you can look at progeny, and their results, what traits he stamps and what would appeal to your mare.

However, I would often take the risks of using a young unproven stallion/colt, but this would be on an older proven mare who has had two or more foals so I know how she stamps her stock as to be honest personally I find this exciting and mostly very successful and rewarding.

However I would look to see where he was standing to have an idea of his future, if he is standing with a known stud there is a fair chance fingers crossed he will go on and compete or often a single stallion owner will put all their time and money into getting their stallion out and competing successfully. To be honest this then put you ahead of the game with some youngstock coming through before people have in general even heard of him.

Again a young stallion/colt would have to fit the type etc to suit the mare he was used on, but I would be careful on the mares I would use him on, if I really liked him I may use him on a proven mare the first year then go back another year with a different selection if I was thrilled with the result.

I will look as far back as I can at the bloodlines as some can carry quirky temperaments which can be passed down the generations and come out to bite you later on.

What I aim to produce is something I want to look at every day over a stable door and am proud to own.

[tigger]

very well put Holiday! You've summed up what I was thinking but said it far better than I could have done.

[sarahp]

Easier for us with pure breeds as we are normally going for a consistent type of foal from parents of consistent type. But far fewer are actually asked to do anything, so restricting stallion choice to those with a ridden/driven record, while desirable, may well dismiss some who could be great but have never been asked to do more than show in hand. In the same way, while I'm a fan of performance (but not breed) grading, they can only grade what is presented for grading which for native ponies is not many, and again you could miss super stallions by restricting yourself to graded stallions, so you do have to choose carefully and have courage in your convictions.

And yes, I second temperament as a very important criterium. I do like them easy to have around!

[hazel]

I agree sarahp and when the BEF Futurity finalise their Stallion Progeny Eligibility rules for 2012 it will be interesting to see the effect on the pony youngstock forward.

My add on to the above - I like to make sure that the Stallion will provide the correct registration papers for the progeny and if necessary I check with the relevant Society. Also if using AI making sure the Stallion is DNA recorded.

[sarahp]

I don't know anything about that hazel, I must check it out! Only just tuned into the Futurity, first one last year.

[ker916]

i am the owner of a welsh section D X pb Arab. he has amazing bloodlines on both sides, his Arab pedigree includes Estansa and Silver Senario to name a few, his Welsh D lines go back to nebo black magic and other good welsh bloodlines.

i have kept my boy entire as his temperament is amazing, for a 22 month old colt he is so easy to do, very trainable and a pleasure to be around, not to mention fab to look at, he has fantastic movement and good conformation. i had him assessed by a royal international judge as i was unsure what to do with him and didn't want to keep him entire f he was not of good quality - i have been assured by the judge that he is a great pony who is a SHP type. the fact that he is coloured is a bonus and i should most defiantly keep him entire and get him graded when he is 4yrs old. this is what i have been told.

i plan on having him vetted and then graded as a ridden show hunter pony, and wont use him till he has been vetted and licenced!!!!!

i have seen a lot of young stock go through the auction ring and i would hate for me to add to the excess stock that is out there at the moment. i do plan on breading from my boy in time, but will be putting him to proven mares as i have an idea what they have thrown previous and can try and guess what traits my boy will pass on. its all a little daunting if i am honest and i am more confused the more i read!



my boys pedigree

www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&horse=TREBINSHWM+CASINO&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l

modified for spelling and missed of comment!

[Sam]

Got to look at what people are buying as well if you are breeding to sell. Always sold large coloureds well and appaloosas but over the past couple of years struggled with the apps so leased the app stallions out, covered the sec b mares with my coloured PBA stallion and had really nice foals by him, first year i have used him my self but foals are flying saying that not askin a lot for them as the mares cost hardly anything to keep.
Only covered one TB this year and left 4 big mares empty as there is no money around saying that have already chosed stallions for next year for a couple of them!!

[suziebrook]

Looking for a stallion for next year to cover 13hh hunter pony(top class) must have bone, movement and be around 15hh ??

[snowflake]

Hi we have a proper 'chunky' SHP mare who is currently under saddle & has won at the Champs etc, & came 10th RIHS.

We were thinking of putting her in foal the year after next, & we wondered of putting a blooder type of stallion on her then you'd get the perfect SHP. Atm some judges just find her a little too chunky, so we thought with something blooder, you'd get a lovely type. Anyone got any suggestions for a stunning 133cm riding pony stallion, to make a 13 hand SHP? As holiday said we have worked 'backwards' & would want the foal to make a 133cm SHP. Our mare Fran is 131.0cm so something around a similar height but no bigger than 133cm so the foal doesn't go over height when it's older!

We don't want to put her in foal to around 2013 probably, just looking around now, & to see what people's suggestions are. Fran is just a lovely mare, won various in hand hunter ponies, at PUK, etc she has brilliant conformation, cannon bone, back leg. She has been fabulous undersaddle & has fab manners.

Just wanted to see your thoughts on stallions! ;D

[jim steel]

This is an interesting one.
We are a small scale breeder of sport horses.
At the end of the day I suppose it depends on what your ultimate aim for the foal is. Is it for the showring, is it for driving, is it for endurance etc etc. If it's for the showring then it's conformation and movement so picking a stallion that is going to 'improve' your mare is the route to go.
In our situation and this is purely our opinion, we breed for performance. We like ex racehorse mares and currently have three. Each has a proven track record (excuse the pun) and are from a NH background - speed, stamina and jumping ability.
Match them to a proven showjumping or dressage stallion and hopefully you will produce a performance horse. It may not necessarily be the best looking beastie and no use in the showring but then that's not what we were aiming for.
Yes conformation is important but not the be all and end all and by way of example I would cite:-
Phar Lapp and Sea Biscuit, The ugliest looking donkeys on the track but by goodness could they run. Bringing things up to date what about Toy Town? A fantastic eventer who does not have the 'looks'.
We have a few youngsters who fortunately do have the 'look' to match their performance breeding and we look on that as a bonus. A couple of this years foals will have really successful careers in youngstock classes.
I have got to say as well that we have used young stallions that don't yet have a proven track record bu we have looked back their pedigree for that performance.
Our stock can be seen at www.fairoaksstud.com

[m@m]

i hate seeing people that expect the stallion to do all the work they spend for example a massive amount of money on a dressage or showjumping stallion but put there mare with it ,who's conformation is poor, temp is iffy, cant jump a stick and dishes lol, then wonder why they dont breed anything that goes on to do well, so i think having a quality mare (whatever the type) with sound conformation (yes some faults can be corrected easily with stallion choice) trainable temp, is a must for breeding anything wether cob, warmblood, welsh etc, least the off spring will have a decent chance of having a job to do later in life, wether they are top draw is luck and circumstance,
in a stallion (depending what i was hoping to breed) i would like a nice head with big eyes, correct movement, trainability, correct conformation and im not keen on wishy washy colours lol and would be open to tried and tested as well as unproven if i liked it enough and it had the lines of stallions i liked in pedegree

[Jim Steel]

By way of a practical example of my earlier post re breeding for performance.
The winner this year of the Scottish Sport Horse 3yr old Loose Jumping Championships was Didgeridoo, the only 2008 son of LC Napenay and a half brother to our youngstock, Campbell, Johnnie, Stella and Glen. We know his 2007 progeny are just coming into work and are also progressing well.
Whilst it is always a wee bit of a lottery choosing the right stallion, it looks like our choice of stallion could be vindicated and there could be a bright future ahead for our lot.
Well done to Sandra at Balcormo for producing a real cracker in Didgeridoo.
Jim
www.fairoaksstud.com

[speedysally]

well personally what i'd do when selecting a stallion for either of my mare is to actually select a few suitable and then obviously go and see the stallion in person, see it's temperament as you never know it could reflect on the foal!

[sanca]

i thik that the mare plays more part than the stallion, they say most foals take after the are rather than the sire anyway. Also look for a stallion that isnt greedy with his genes, A true stallion will throw youngstock like himself which normally means he has really strong genes. I have just boght a thoroughbred mare and im unsure what stallion to use on her. I would like to breed a show horse ad she is a lightweight hunter type so i was thinking of putting her to either a patbred arab or a irish draught type for a middle weight hunter???
!

[sanca]

i thik that the mare plays more part than the stallion, they say most foals take after the are rather than the sire anyway. Also look for a stallion that isnt greedy with his genes, A true stallion will throw youngstock like himself which normally means he has really strong genes. I have just boght a thoroughbred mare and im unsure what stallion to use on her. I would like to breed a show horse ad she is a lightweight hunter type so i was thinking of putting her to either a patbred arab or a irish draught type for a middle weight hunter???
!

[Deleted]

I firmly believe that 75% of the foal comes from the mare, so you must choose your mare very carefully then choose a stallion to compliment her.

[sarahp]

The foal is of course brought up by the mare and not the stallion, so behavioural traits can be learned that way.

Genetically, a tiny fraction more genes come from the mare, in terms of the mitochondrial DNA in the fluid in the ovum which is to do with oxygen exchange in the system, otherwise it's 50:50 genetically. "Greedy with his genes" and "strong genes" are not scientific terms, the only genetic basis is an animal of either sex which his homozygous for (has two copies of) many of his/her genes so can only pass those on to offspring, known as being prepotent. A high level of homozygosity is more likely to be found in very closely linebred animals, which is why if you look back to the development of many of our domestic breeds they go back to one outstanding linebred specimen, normally male as they can have far more offspring than a female,which is used on many different females, then the offspring is again linebred to fix the type and thus form a breed.

[workingcob]

I bred my TB mare this year for the first time - she is 16.2 and by Keen, has a scopey jump and lovely, old fashioned conformation with lots of depth, movement and decent bone. As she is a maiden, I wanted to use a smaller stallion to give her an easier time, and also because I wanted to breed something I would realistically enjoy riding - so many people use huge flashy warmblood stallions and will never really have a chance of riding the offspring.

Like many TBs, she is quite a character so I wanted a stallion with a good temperament, correctly put together and with movement and ability. In the end, after lots of research, I decided on a Connemara stallion and chose a younger stallion that really jumps and has the temperament to both cover mares and perform under saddle during the same season. I hoped that, as she is 16.2 and he is 14.2, I would end up with a small hunter type, pref dapple grey (I love Sir William John, and as both the stallion and the mare are grey, I thought I had a pretty good shot at a grey)

Hmm, despite my best intentions, I managed to breed a whopper! My brown roan foal looks like a pure TB, has legs like a supermodel and has very definitely thrown to her mother's side looks wise, although she is the sweetest, most unflappable character which I think comes from her sire. I'm told her pony genes will kick in eventually and she will stop growing, but lord she's a big girl at the mo!

It's given me a useful guide to the type of foal my mare will breed - that big, deep girth obviously means plenty of baby growing room - and will guide me next time o choose a stallion. I'm still hoping to breed my small hunter from her - any suggestions for my next stallion choice?

[Jessica]

Our boy is a 13.1 hh welsh B (just turning 3). Huge amounts of bone and movement to die for. Don't think Mum is planning on standing him as a 3 year old as will be concentrating on showing, but looking to stand him as a 4 year old.
Was only beaten once last year (in a huge -20ish competitors- mixed M&M class) won many championships including a WPCS medal. Won his class at every county show he went to.

Unfortunely he isn't grey! but should produce a stunning riding animal, very balanced in all 4 paces, does flying changes round the field for fun! (He will go to Katie Marriott Payne at the end of his 4 year old year to be broken and shown under saddle).

He is the chestnut in my signature and the photo was taken in last summer, so when he was 2. Since then he has matured up. He is called Hilin Magician.

www.allbreedpedigree.com/index.php?query_type=horse&horse=HILIN+MAGICIAN&g=5&cellpadding=0&small_font=1&l=