|
Post by poneydestiny on May 22, 2011 17:46:33 GMT
My thinking exactly. They admitted taking malnourished animals. Why would they aide and abet instead of bringing the welfare officers attention to this and showing the public at large that this is unacceptable and they will not be a party to such unethical transactions? uh add to that for the past 20 years...
|
|
|
Post by SarahWilkes on May 22, 2011 17:54:22 GMT
i do feel that the responsibility lies in the hands of the auction houses that accept these ponies and defra.
i grew up on a beef farm, and over the last 20 years eu legislations etc have increased the standard of the cattle, sheep, pigs that go through the sales. today's markets will not accept your animals if they are in poor condition, have bad feet, or dirty.
yes it is slightly different because most farm animals head into the food chain, but this system has has seen the demise of the poor producer and benefited the good producers through the trade.
most studs use the sales, especially well marketed ones to sell their stock each year, hence why we all travel to purchase well bred ponies. Tighter regulations would put a stop to situations like this happening again.
we need to think of the future, to reduce over breeding. good well bred ponies will always be sold.
From Defra's side, they need to implement a service that check all owners have their passports in place and up to date........how many people on here can honestly say that all their ponies passports are correct?
we had a bull 2 years ago that we fed up to go in the freezer, during this time defra made a visit to us to check 1 animal, making sure that it was tagged and matched the details to its passport.
i may add that passports are free however for beef cattle......which is another issue altogether!!
|
|
|
Post by amumwithapony on May 22, 2011 18:05:18 GMT
But being a complete cynic Poneydestiny, the more people who own welsh ponies, the more people who breed, the more people who want to attend WPCS shows with their welsh ponies that they bought for £30 from a sale, the more ponies that are bred that need registering and microchipping the more revenue for the WPCS.
Granted all sales should be encouraged and supported to have only fit and healthy animals there but in reality how would you police it? My view of something that is fit and well is completely different from someone elses. All ours are vaccinated every year, on a strict worming programme and see the farrier every 6-8 weeks. Many reputable studs don't do any of that, apart from maybe the stuff they are showing and there stuff would be classes by many as being in tip top condition. And going slightly off topic but would you let a clearly obese animal through but not one that is poor?
I still think the best way forward is to stop attending such sales, whether it is for the tack auction or to find a bargain. You may be able to influence the WPCS or your MP or even the queen with regards to the Criccieth ponies but until people start voting with their feet and their purses and stop attending and buying at such sales, prestigous or otherwise then people will still overbreed knowing their surplus's can be auctioned off to the highest bidder, be that a sympathy buy, a calculated bargain or the meatman.
Someone made a point a few weeks ago about the best stallions, think it was on another forum, that the best stallions as percieved by people who breed are not necessarily those that we have all heard of. The reason we have all heard of such and such a stallion is that he has sired that many foals that eventually the law of averages will kick in and something by him will eventually win something big. The best stallions (and the same could be said of mares) are sometimes owned by small, private studs who have neither the resources or inclination to offer public stud, so although their stallion may be a better example of the breed because he isnt as well known isnt perceived to be the best at that time.
Everytime someone buys at a sale and gets a bargain or rescues something, they are depriving a genuine, hardworking caring breeder of a sale. The more times this happens the more we will jepordise the breed as these smaller breeders can not continue to keep covering and not selling stock on. But the WPCS don't encourage or support or help the smaller breeder as they are not as profitable as the stud that has 100+ foals to register. Which is why nothing is ever done by the WPCS about breeders who have cruelty charges brought against them and be found guilty of those charges in some cases.
The only way to stop this happening in the future is to cut off the demand. And thats economics 101.
|
|
|
Post by jinja on May 22, 2011 18:16:52 GMT
I do agree we need to change things for the future, but I am so dissapointed that we have not been able to rescue those poor ponies that were left at the Cricceth stud. I am so sad that all the efforts of everyone has up to date not had any affect. I still think there are many people who do not know this is going on. I have spoken to several people at shows over the weekend who had no idea what I was talking about. We need this story on TV and in newspapers for the general public to see, how can we get the coverage that it needs.
|
|
|
Post by diane on May 22, 2011 18:20:14 GMT
I do agree we need to change things for the future, but I am so dissapointed that we have not been able to rescue those poor ponies that were left at the Cricceth stud. I am so sad that all the efforts of everyone has up to date not had any affect. I still think tehre are mant who do not know this is going on as I have spoken to several people at shows over the weekend who had no idea what I was talking about. We need this story on TV and in newspaers for the general public to see, how can we get the coverage that it needs. I agree entirely. I am sure there is a lot going on behind the scenes but the truth is......over a week from the sale.as far as we know....the ponies are still in the same predicament?
|
|
|
Post by JadeCannon on May 22, 2011 18:31:44 GMT
Please do not be dissapointed - there are MANY FORWARD movements being made! They will all be unveiled asap but think a professional approach is needed to ensure we are not just a one hit wonder As in the Jamie Gray case (I lived nearby) the horses were reported what felt like years (3 weeks) before they were actually removed.
|
|
|
Post by poneydestiny on May 22, 2011 18:40:20 GMT
From France and Switzerland - we have the "Haras National" which is the organisation that issues papers for ALL races once the specific breeds have qualified with them..they also provide stallions to improve the stock at low cost, distributed around the country at breeding season. This is always an item of discussion as they lose money and must be subsidized by the government, but each time they want to close down, there are too many protests. Ergo, I am not sure what the structure is in the UK (I will inform myself) but good stallions should be made available at small prices, a central non-personalized entity should be granting papers and it is all run as a service to the agricultural sector on a whole and the equine market both in country and export as a whole. By grouping the entire horse/pony administrative structure under one roof you develop economies of scale, improve the breeds, streamline and make more cost effective the papers and finally break the stranglehold of tiny little people trying to run little societies
|
|
|
Post by diane on May 22, 2011 18:50:29 GMT
I am now going to withdraw from this.....will be reading but not commenting unfortunately. Good luck everyone.
|
|
|
Post by eskvalleystud on May 22, 2011 19:11:58 GMT
its is a sorry and very worrying state of affairs that responsible breeders shocked by the neglect of these ponies feel they need to watch their backs
|
|
|
Post by JadeCannon on May 22, 2011 19:13:57 GMT
its is a sorry and very worrying state of affairs that responsible breeders shocked by the neglect of these ponies feel they need to watch their backs Very sad
|
|
|
Post by nagrags on May 22, 2011 19:24:16 GMT
This has been a very hard decision for me to make comment but for the sheer love of the breed I hope not to be tied into the disgusting welfare of the mentioned ponies tied into the Builth Sales.
My daughter sadly lost her own pony 12 months ago and its only within the past 6 weeks she has been emotionally ready to look for another one. We have been following the progress of a lovely young Welsh Sec D of which we heard prior was to be entered into the Builth Wells sales. We had plenty of contact with his owner and conversed on a regular basis as we didnt live local. We believe we have found our dream pony and take GREAT pride in him but I cant help feel its overshadowed by the dreadful care from Mr Evans. We have personally made a complaint to the WPCS and supported your petitions and shall continue to do so.
We wish you all the best x
|
|
|
Post by dobiegirl on May 22, 2011 20:49:37 GMT
Hi Im new and just wanted to say how much I admire your stand, Im usually on H&H and push this site and your fight as much as possible.
Ive sent off emails and signed the petitions and urged my friends to do the same.
The studs that have got involved has been amazing and I admire your courage under difficult circumstances.
I would reiterate what has been said about keeping your further plans confidential and not on an open forum where the opposition can have access to them.
Good luck this is one fight that has right on its side and it has to win.
|
|
|
Post by brindlerainbow on May 22, 2011 20:53:40 GMT
Thanks Dobiegirl ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
Post by sjp on May 22, 2011 20:57:41 GMT
That's very kind of you Diane! However there is no credit due to me. I had no idea, when I started the thread, what would evolve.
|
|
Milliesmum
H G Addict
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_teal.png)
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
|
Post by Milliesmum on May 22, 2011 21:40:04 GMT
|
|
|
Post by llyncathburystud on May 22, 2011 21:50:39 GMT
Hi, i have been following this thread from the start, i attended the spring sales with my family and was absolutly disgusted with the conditions of some of the criccieth lots, i did intend on buying a pony but was worried that they would bring something back to my stud as some of them had snotty noses and eyes. I live in liverpool and would like to help if i can in anyway, i would also consider rescueing some ponies if needed if they were ever removed from this stud in a seperate field away from mine. Great work done by all and i really hope that all your hard work pays off! going off the subject what happened in the spindlers case as mentioned earlier in this thread? pm me if want.
|
|
|
Post by JadeCannon on May 22, 2011 21:52:01 GMT
Im guessing there is help for the 'other' side out there!
|
|
|
Post by JadeCannon on May 22, 2011 22:02:46 GMT
Im guessing there is help for the 'other' side out there! Forget it - modified already! For those of you that didnt see it, on the page posted above was a post by 'Horses and Ponies for sale in Gwynedd' advising the following : if anyone know Mr Evans of criccieth stud, please offer him your services or help as people are going to be protesting outside the stud cause the ponies are a little under weight!!! please no ranting over this post as it will not be tolerated, thanks admin - please note I have a screen print and these were the exact words! There was also a reply from a lady (who I will not name) : Id rather c a pony a little under weight than obece some people just dont no wot their talking abt let me no if i can do anything 2 help
|
|
|
Post by bonnieheather on May 22, 2011 22:08:17 GMT
Please, please, please, for those who have their own websites, stand up to the indiscriminate 'breeders', show your solidarity and love for the welfare and improvement of the lives of those poor ponies who are not bred and cared for in the manner that yours are.....
Please post this statement, or a variant of it to your websites:
None of the achievements of ponies on these pages have been gained at the cost of breeding large numbers and culling by off loading ponies that are destined for the meat trade. Please think before you breed, the minute your mare goes to the stallion, you are responsible for the welfare of that pony!! Champions don't have to walk on the bones of other ponies........ DON'T BREED FOR SLAUGHTER!
|
|
drea
Full Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 287
|
Post by drea on May 22, 2011 22:11:40 GMT
why on earth would anyone with a conscience want to help this man, the amount of suffering he has subjected those poor animals to, all to make a quick buck i just cant work this out this sort of thing has been going on for years and now the time has come for the abusers to stand and take their punishment this sort of behavior will not be tolarated any longer one voice shouting no matter how loud is ignored but alot of voices shouting together canot be ignored i applaud each and everone who are now shouting together in one voice to be heard and demanding action to be taken, the time has come for change this canot go on the cruelty that certain individuals have inflicted on animals has got to stop and i think the day of reckoning is now upon them we are now in the 21st century so i think is now time to bring the rules of the welfare organisations and the breed societies up here with the rest of us, i will just add that i breed welsh cobs not in a big way every other year or so, my husband is a clydesdale breeder again one foal every other year or so and he is of the same frame of mind as me, and we will stand up and be counted against cruelty
|
|
kayjayem
Happy to help....a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_red.png)
Posts: 10,046
|
Post by kayjayem on May 22, 2011 22:11:57 GMT
Im guessing there is help for the 'other' side out there! Forget it - modified already! For those of you that didnt see it, on the page posted above was a post by 'Horses and Ponies for sale in Gwynedd' advising the following : if anyone know Mr Evans of criccieth stud, please offer him your services or help as people are going to be protesting outside the stud cause the ponies are a little under weight!!! please no ranting over this post as it will not be tolerated, thanks admin - please note I have a screen print and these were the exact words! There was also a reply from a lady (who I will not name) : Id rather c a pony a little under weight than obece some people just dont no wot their talking abt let me no if i can do anything 2 helpUnbelievable!! I wonder what the weather is like on planet IGNORANCE. I'd like to let her know what she can do
|
|
|
Post by eskvalleystud on May 22, 2011 22:14:54 GMT
so who are these people rallying around for support of Mr Evans? did this woman think there was nothing wrong with the mare who was presented at the sale with a foal at foot in such a condition? if it is acceptable to them then why do they not present their stock in the show ring to the same 'standard' ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) when they feel its acceptable?
|
|
|
Post by bonnieheather on May 22, 2011 22:15:49 GMT
There was a pretty similar type post on the fb page from a girl supporting him who lives nearby, 'we need to help the poor old boy' type of s......
|
|
|
Post by sparrow on May 22, 2011 22:25:58 GMT
It will be interesting to see how many people actually turn up to support Evans next Saturday.
I hope the protesters take lots of pictures of his supporters for future identification.
|
|
|
Post by eskvalleystud on May 22, 2011 22:28:23 GMT
Oh for flipping goodness sake, what exactly do they think they will achieve!!! cover up? do they SLEEP AT NIGHT? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know how many nights I have lost sleep worrying about my ponies for various reasons and they have never been even a hint near the awful state these ponies were in, for a sale for all too see as well, its totally acceptable for them to look like this then, to be this ill and neglected, well for goodness sake for one minute think that that foal or mare is your family, feel their suffering, I was gutted when my stallion had grass sickness, he LOOKED like a rescue case when being nursed in the royal willy, it wasn't caused from neglect, but the lost hours of stress and sleep worrying, god god, do the same for any animal in your care and start to look after it, they don't ask for much and if you cannot afford to look after them due to circumstances then do the responsible thing, either find them a really good home or have them pts if you no longer can afford, don't look at them like they are ££££ signs and turn down a good home that can offer them what they need I have only 12 on my stud and I have help and feel that I cannot manage as youngsters have not sold, probably thanks to those who breed and don't pay for wormers, vacs, vet and farrier, that flood the market and sell to those who cannot bare the neglect, if I at 12 ponies feel I cannot manage to look after properly to a high standard how the blinking heck does this man manage with 50 plus foals, how does he worm, hard feed, handle, know their personality etc etc its like chicken farming and its sickening, they have wee souls and characters and have a massive amount of love within them STOP SUPPORTING CRUELTY
|
|
|
Post by JadeCannon on May 22, 2011 22:31:27 GMT
Please, please, please, for those who have their own websites, stand up to the indiscriminate 'breeders', show your solidarity and love for the welfare and improvement of the lives of those poor ponies who are not bred and cared for in the manner that yours are..... Please post this statement, or a variant of it to your websites: None of the achievements of ponies on these pages have been gained at the cost of breeding large numbers and culling by off loading ponies that are destined for the meat trade. Please think before you breed, the minute your mare goes to the stallion, you are responsible for the welfare of that pony!! Champions don't have to walk on the bones of other ponies........ DON'T BREED FOR SLAUGHTER! echo this!
|
|
|
Post by marymary on May 22, 2011 22:41:03 GMT
Some breeder friends who were at Easter Court sale yesterday have reported back that The PR Guru for Brightwells in this matter was being accompanied by 2 Security guards wherever he went yesterday ? Did anyone else see that ?
|
|
|
Post by bonnieheather on May 22, 2011 22:43:28 GMT
^^^^^ Fantastic stuff!!!
|
|
|
Post by honeypot on May 22, 2011 22:49:11 GMT
I think that the 'other side' is expressing themselves is a good thing, because it means the outcry must be having some effect and it also allows us to see what their excusses and expose them for what they are.
|
|
supes
Full Member
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 328
|
Post by supes on May 22, 2011 23:52:06 GMT
Im guessing there is help for the 'other' side out there! Forget it - modified already! For those of you that didnt see it, on the page posted above was a post by 'Horses and Ponies for sale in Gwynedd' advising the following : if anyone know Mr Evans of criccieth stud, please offer him your services or help as people are going to be protesting outside the stud cause the ponies are a little under weight!!! please no ranting over this post as it will not be tolerated, thanks admin - please note I have a screen print and these were the exact words! There was also a reply from a lady (who I will not name) : Id rather c a pony a little under weight than obece some people just dont no wot their talking abt let me no if i can do anything 2 helpAbsolutely appalling that people are still supporting this piece of cr*p, because that`s all he is! All I can think is that these people must keep their own animals in the same way!How do they live with themselves? They must be like him and have no feelings and no conscience! ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png) jadecannon I really think you should name this lady because I`d certainly like to educate her in what`s right and what`s wrong for what that pig did to my old boy! When did the ad` go on as perhaps that is why ponies were being moved about a few days ago ? I think perhaps that 'Horses and Ponies for sale in Gwynedd' should also be made aware of what he has done because NO reputable person or organisation should be helping this man out....poor old boy? Not in a million years...neither physically or mentally and definately not financially after the thousands and thousands of pounds he has made out of his ponies misery! God I am so angry...this whole situation is keeping me up until the early hours every single day as it`s brought all of the hurt and frustration back to the fore of what I went through when Evan Evans did the same to my stallion!
|
|