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Post by eskvalleystud on May 22, 2011 23:56:00 GMT
I will not be renewing my membership until various issues are addressed
if after a dispersal or 'reduction' sale, should the breeder continue to breed year in year out large amounts of ponies? no
if he found himself the need to have a reduction sale, surely to goodness he would accept the fact that the stallions needed to be removed from the mares, why has he kept going and why have the WPCS and Brightwells let him continue
if you were to have such a large scale problem you would seek help and stop what you are doing - however seems to be an acceptable practise what he does
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Post by bonnieheather on May 22, 2011 23:59:02 GMT
Please all continue to let your voices be heard - keep emailing, mailing, faxing, ringing whoever you want to hear about this disgraceful behaviour....
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 6:05:32 GMT
Dear Supes, Thank you for all your tremendous support and we are all very sorry about the affair with your stallion and certainly understand your passion which we share! Ref Gwynedd Horse and Pony Facebook "sales" page, yes I just made a general request asking anyone who knew who the administrator of the page was to contact me confidentially. Also someone made the comment that they had once followed up on a sales lead and the pony was in terrible condition, so we can put two and two together rather quickly - once we have "named and shamed" then we will go on to the next level of action so if anyone out there knows who is the person selling on this site please send me a confidential pm thank you
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 6:13:12 GMT
FOR ALL OF YOU WHO FEEL THREATENED OR MENACED IN ANYWAY FOR YOUR PERSONAL SAFETY OR THE SAFETY OF YOUR ANIMALS I can give you this advice from a great deal of experience with Crimestoppers and the breaking up of major drug dealers (which I was involved in in the USA) At the sight or sound of the smallest noise from this band of thugs, go immediately to your local police station to file a report. That means if you have been called (great to have telephones that register the numbers and can record the conversations by the way..I hope all you creeps out there are listening and taking note) motion detected floodlights and hidden cameras, DOGS - at the sight or sound of unknown persons, activity or following verbal threats or menaces DO NOT HESITATE TO BEGIN TO DOCUMENT THIS - the police will be obliged to open their own investigation if they begin to see a number of reports in the same geographic area or similar complaints coming from several specific areas. THESE ARE BULLIES AND COWARDS - once you stand up for your rights in a legal and lawful and TENACIOUS manner and as we have said NAME AND SHAME, this terrible nightmare will go away The Core Group is here to support you in whatever way we can, and bring any and all pressure to bear, do not hesitate to contact us confidentially
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 6:30:30 GMT
THIS IS A MESSAGE AND UPDATE FROM THE CORE COMMITTEE OF 10 PERSONS
Update Thank you everyone for the strong and enduring support and multiple efforts of everyone concerned with the appalling state of the ponies presented for sale last week at Builth Wells. This sale put the spotlight on a controversy which has been raging for years between the professional ethical breeders (who do not "breed to die") and a few major pony meat factories. There are interlinking interests in terms of registration fees for large numbers of ponies, prestige to a stud who has a stallion or multiple stallions siring hundreds of stock (sometimes under little or no control) All of these issues are being addressed. We have stories and media coverage which will be breaking but this is investigative reporting at its best and requires a certain lead time. The stud which presented the pony shown in the picture in such apalling condition is apparently doing some pasture "window dressing" at the moment with a great deal of movement of stock. Why, we do not know, as there is still the fact of the sold ponies in the deplorable state which is very factual indeed. We can only hope that all of the ponies being moved around are going to find themselves in greener pastures for the moment. The only entity that has the authority to seize the animals is the RSPCA, but then again they have been aware of the ongoing situation for many, many years. We urge any of you with connections that you feel may be of assistance to contact us by either a private message or publicly. We are growing by the minute in numbers and our resolve has hardened to seeing this through to a satisfactory conclusion for all concerned. Continue to make your comments or assist us on an individual basis. We remain dedicated, engaged and professional and willing to take on all threats, bullying and menaces which will be met with the appropriate action at the appropriate time.
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Post by cheekychops on May 23, 2011 6:52:59 GMT
I presume the society sales are not designed to covert ponies into the hands of the meat man. As guardians of the breed I would therefore anticipate that the purchase of ponies for slaughter could be banned and the slaughterman turned away at the door. Of course there might be some back door purchases but at least the society would be seen to be doing something. BAN THE MEATMAN! Any unsold cheap ponies would then be sent home and this WOULD be a deterrent for those who want rid and dont care where!
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Post by colourful on May 23, 2011 6:59:32 GMT
PONEYDESTINY - many thanks for the update, it is greatly appreciated.
I find it rather sad that the PR Guruguy has 2 security guards - we are not interested in doing you any harm sir - only your pocket and your reputation. We are civilised intelligent people, not thugs.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 7:04:00 GMT
well said colourful and a great idea babycheeks regarding the banning of slaughter men at sales - let there be a special outlet for meat ponies (how sad! ) and not mixed with the high standard breeds to the detriment of everyone
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Post by JadeCannon on May 23, 2011 7:22:02 GMT
Well said colourful!
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Post by jebediah on May 23, 2011 8:32:13 GMT
I presume the society sales are not designed to covert ponies into the hands of the meat man. As guardians of the breed I would therefore anticipate that the purchase of ponies for slaughter could be banned and the slaughterman turned away at the door. Of course there might be some back door purchases but at least the society would be seen to be doing something. BAN THE MEATMAN! Any unsold cheap ponies would then be sent home and this WOULD be a deterrent for those who want rid and dont care where! Sorry I do not think that would work At sales I go to ''people buy on behalf of the meat man'' horses go onto grass lets until they are fattened up--or so I have been informed
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mpc
Junior Member
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Post by mpc on May 23, 2011 8:36:42 GMT
THIS IS A MESSAGE AND UPDATE FROM THE CORE COMMITTEE OF 10 PERSONS Sorry have I missed something....could you explain what the "Core committee of 10 persons" means please? Many thanks
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 8:42:39 GMT
There are over 3,000 people now involved in this initiative. In order to ensure an orderly advancement of our goals and smooth communication, a call for volunteers went out to those who would like to help directly and hands on with the effort. We have thus a Core Committee who for security reasons unfortunately has to remain just that, and many many sub committees who are answering into the Core Committee on a multitude of issues connected with the sale of the starving ponies. I would say there are probably at the moment 100 persons directly involved in the situation which concerns all of us Thank you to all of you, whether just through your comments, or your hands on actions to making a difference in Wales for the benefit not only of the welsh ponies but all animals by heightening the sensitivity on these issues. Once we begin to get actual strong cruelty sentences handed down to the limit of the law on proven cases we will have succeeded.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 8:50:26 GMT
Just posted on the FB page Charlotte Stallwood As a breeder of welsh D's in france i have been watching all this closely and would like to raise a few points. The cradle of welsh ponies is Wales, you are not fighting a person you are fighting traditions within a very proud and united country comprising many who also feel changes are necessary. This a complicated issue and does no...t boil down to an old man mistreating ponies. Is it not too late to attack this person, who has been awarded for his input into welsh breeding for years. How can he have reached the status of judge and honorary member of the WCPS of which some of us are members and therefore also accountable and responsible. I feel that the real issues here lie within the WCPS and Brightwells who are the core of this culture. It is not until these showcases of irresponsible horse management and the ethics of the WPCS itself are reassessed that the reputation of welsh breeding programmes and the welsh pony can be saved.
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mpc
Junior Member
Posts: 183
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Post by mpc on May 23, 2011 9:08:17 GMT
There are over 3,000 people now involved in this initiative. In order to ensure an orderly advancement of our goals and smooth communication, a call for volunteers went out to those who would like to help directly and hands on with the effort. We have thus a Core Committee who for security reasons unfortunately has to remain just that, and many many sub committees who are answering into the Core Committee on a multitude of issues connected with the sale of the starving ponies. I would say there are probably at the moment 100 persons directly involved in the situation which concerns all of us Thank you to all of you, whether just through your comments, or your hands on actions to making a difference in Wales for the benefit not only of the welsh ponies but all animals by heightening the sensitivity on these issues. Once we begin to get actual strong cruelty sentences handed down to the limit of the law on proven cases we will have succeeded. Thank you for the clarification, keep up the good work!
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Post by perfectponies on May 23, 2011 9:08:18 GMT
I have just sat and read all 33 pages - well done to you all - I do hope something positive comes from all of your efforts and I hope as many people as possible will attend the protest. I have just looked at several Welsh pony stud web pages especially those studs who seem to farm ponies oh 'breed in a natural environment' seems to be the prefered term!! If you look at some of foals in the for sale sections on these stud sites, look beyond the cute foal for sale in the photo and look at some of the mares stood next to thier foals they look awful : Long feet, hips, ribs. I think this one stud is just the tip of the iceburg. If your thinking of buying a welsh in the future please buy wisely not from a stud that farms ponies on mass look to buy from a stud that breeds with care.
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Post by pencaedu on May 23, 2011 9:08:52 GMT
Sorry, but much as I hate the idea of any pony going for meat, I would much rather see them dead than suffering.
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on May 23, 2011 9:17:33 GMT
I think we have to accept that there IS a meat trade, and that there will be ponies bred specifically for meat, but in the long term we should campaign to get the horse meat trade regulated - just because a pony is going to end up on someone's dinner table does NOT mean that it shouldn't get a basic standard of care whilst it's alive, then meet a dignified end BEFORE it is transported to the continent.
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sarahp
Happy to help
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Post by sarahp on May 23, 2011 9:23:02 GMT
I think that's more a question of sorting the welfare issues while they are alive rather than the UK meat trade - and I personally would like to see any going abroad for meat to go on the hook not the hoof. We don't want to end up like the US with no outlet whatsoever for old, ill horses and those that for any other reason have no future. Better dead than suffering, as pencaedu says.
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Post by getyourfactsright on May 23, 2011 9:42:00 GMT
Just posted on the FB page Charlotte Stallwood As a breeder of welsh D's in france i have been watching all this closely and would like to raise a few points. The cradle of welsh ponies is Wales, you are not fighting a person you are fighting traditions within a very proud and united country comprising many who also feel changes are necessary. This a complicated issue and does no...t boil down to an old man mistreating ponies. Is it not too late to attack this person, who has been awarded for his input into welsh breeding for years. How can he have reached the status of judge and honorary member of the WCPS of which some of us are members and therefore also accountable and responsible. I feel that the real issues here lie within the WCPS and Brightwells who are the core of this culture. It is not until these showcases of irresponsible horse management and the ethics of the WPCS itself are reassessed that the reputation of welsh breeding programmes and the welsh pony can be saved.
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 23, 2011 9:45:24 GMT
I think that's more a question of sorting the welfare issues while they are alive rather than the UK meat trade - and I personally would like to see any going abroad for meat to go on the hook not the hoof. We don't want to end up like the US with no outlet whatsoever for old, ill horses and those that for any other reason have no future. Better dead than suffering, as pencaedu says. How I echo that - and also Milliesmum's sensible words (above) I have no worries about any dead-stock travelling long distance 'on the hook' and there are strict welfare guidelines for both long and short haul transportation of livestock - and at the Abattoir. Thus suggesting 'banning the meat man' is not the way forward or indeed the issue - Welfare on the owner's/agent's premises whilst alive is surely the sole issue here.
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Post by getyourfactsright on May 23, 2011 9:46:35 GMT
Mr Evans joined the WPCS in 1968 and has life membership as anyone can. He has never had honorary life member ship awarded to him by the WPCS. He has not been a panel judge for many years.
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Post by pencaedu on May 23, 2011 9:49:57 GMT
Does the last statement mean he has never been a panel judge, has only recently become one, or was one & now isn't? Very ambiguous!!!!
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Post by getyourfactsright on May 23, 2011 10:06:30 GMT
"Not been" a panel judge for many years tells you that he once was. Pity your command of the English language isn't better or there would have been no need to ask You failed to comment on the inaccurate statements that Mr Evans was awarded honorary membership by the WPCS.
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 23, 2011 10:08:23 GMT
Does the last statement mean he has never been a panel judge, has only recently become one, or was one & now isn't? Very ambiguous!!!! Pencaedu - going from the alphabetical list in the Judges handbook, Mr Evans retired from the WPCS Panel at the end of 2009. (ie - no longer appears in the listings for 2010->) hope this helps -
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Post by eskvalleystud on May 23, 2011 10:13:45 GMT
at the end of the day, does it really matter what the flip Mr Evans has done, been etc, one fact for certain is that the ponies were/are in awful condition
getyourfactsright - what exactly is your view on how the ponies are kept?
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Post by sanlirra on May 23, 2011 10:19:00 GMT
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 10:32:01 GMT
Thank you "getyourfacts straight" we appreciate the input and comments. Our goal is to proceed in as ethical and honest manner as possible - we do not need to invent things, there is already a long tradition of factual evidence that is shocking enough. We also do not need to resort to fraud or illegal means or even menaces to get our objectives accomplished. So once again, thank you for setting the record straight, much appreciated! I am not quite sure why you deliberately tried to insult one of the forum members with the ridiculous remark about "english being better" it would be more helpful if we all were on the same side trying to improve conditions..
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Milliesmum
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COCKERP00S RULE!!!
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Post by Milliesmum on May 23, 2011 10:37:44 GMT
Inded I think it can only be a good thing that we have correct factual information in order that we can explore all avenues to improve conditions for the Criccieth and other welsh ponies. Thank you for your input 'getyourfactsright'. I too would be interested to hear your views on the condition of the ponies pictured throughout this thread, both at the auction and on Mr. Evans land.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 10:51:34 GMT
well it looks like "get your facts straight" (3 posts) is another hit and run tactic -
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Post by sjp on May 23, 2011 10:55:10 GMT
Well I for one would be relieved and pleased to know that the WPCS has not awarded him honorary life membership and would wish this had been refuted from the beginning as I think it is the cause of a lot of the bitterness towards the WPCS Council.
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