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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 11:00:21 GMT
It is also unfortunate that the WPCS is not making more complete statements or taking a more proactive stance on these issues instead of this great silence as everyone is anxiously waiting to hear how going foward things are going to be radically improved (?) or shouldn't they be?...
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Post by stormyskies on May 23, 2011 11:08:30 GMT
has anyone contacted the news of the world in this? am not sure who has done what now
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Post by heathers on May 23, 2011 11:12:14 GMT
i might see Dr Wynne over the weekend,if so i will speak to him i didnt see Dr Wynne at the weekend,but i have sent him an email and added a link to this discussion.i know a young lad who see's him daily so i will ask him to make sure that Dr Wynne has recieved it.
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Post by gwynsmum on May 23, 2011 11:18:33 GMT
"Not been" a panel judge for many years tells you that he once was. Pity your command of the English language isn't better or there would have been no need to ask You failed to comment on the inaccurate statements that Mr Evans was awarded honorary membership by the WPCS. Please keep in mind, before making any statements to the command of the English language, that not all posters of this forum have English as their native tongue. I for one am not a native English speaker. English in the 5th language I learned in school and I do my utmost to spell correctly and understand it correctly but at times I fail... So please think before you write statements ref the common of English language.... And you have failed to comment on the question that has been asked..what is your view on how the ponies are kept at Mr Evans and the conditions of the ponies that were sold at the recent sale.
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kayjayem
Happy to help....a lot
Posts: 10,046
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Post by kayjayem on May 23, 2011 11:25:22 GMT
Going back to the "ban the meatman" from the sales suggestion, as someone said they can send buyers anyway so surely a better way would be introduce upset prices just above meat value. At least then these poor creatures destined for the abbatoir may have more chance of going directly there than suffer the distress of the sales ring.
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Post by pippard on May 23, 2011 11:42:39 GMT
I would like to applaud the committed efforts of the people who are taking action regarding this breeder but please stick to what can be done and not get sidetracked by things that cannot be proved.
The mare in the picture was from the Cricceth Stud and was listed for sale and sold. The mare was in very poor condition which makes it a cruelty issue. These are facts and are why you need to push the relevant people with the power to make a prosecution against this man to act and act now. While I am sure that the pictures of the filly who died while foaling are genuine, how could you prove they were taken at this stud?
Please do not dilute the welfare and cruelty issue by pushing for regulation to control breeding. For some of the rare breeds this would be a disaster. Also it is education not regulation that is needed. Regulation does not make people responsible it just adds to the nanny state that we have in this country. Also, with the huge cutback in public services, there will be no one to police it so it would be ineffective.
It may be useful to your case to question those involved as to why, around fifty ponies where entered but not all forward. Did they leave the stud or where they left behind? If travelled, could it be that, after a hour and a half journey to Bluith that the were not in a fit state to be sold and if so what happened to them. If this was the case why were they travelled?
I am just asking the questions, I do not have any information regarding this but would like to know the answers,
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Post by bonnieheather on May 23, 2011 11:43:57 GMT
Mr Evans joined the WPCS in 1968 and has life membership as anyone can. He has never had honorary life member ship awarded to him by the WPCS. He has not been a panel judge for many years. Thank you very much for your information
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 11:58:30 GMT
Pippard, thank for that input, yes we need to raise sensitivity in terms of the ethical issues of delivering starving ponies to a sale I fully agree and yes I understand your comments on regulating as well. On another issue regarding horsemeat, which I mentioned somewhere else as an example..this is a thriving industry for instance in France and most other agricultural countries where farmers breed draft horses for meat consumption where there is a correct ratio of flesh to bone and the animals are large enough to make it worthwhile. This is the same in many European countries. There are local abbatoirs, which handle the regional need and are fed into by local farmers. The second largest source of meat is the thoroughbred industry and the third are the old or sick animals. It is highly regulated. I cannot believe that France for instance would be interested in importing pony meat (and not good quality at that) for any reason plus the transportation costs would be horrendous, in addition to the strict health and hygiene requirements in place at present in the EU.. I am going to check as to the market price per pound for poor quality equine meat on the hoof to see where we are in terms of prices
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 12:00:01 GMT
the market price in Wales that is..
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Post by sageandonion on May 23, 2011 13:30:27 GMT
getyourfactsright is most welcome because it is important we do get our facts completely right. I do find it very odd how there are people, who are cruel and neglect animals, who have friends and protectors. Jamie Gray did too, but they fast did a runner once people got their facts right and had him proscecuted.
Yes we need to contact News of the World, I am off to their website. No doubt you can contact directly through that. Need at least another half a dozen to do likewise. So, if you have nothing better to do (and what better thing to do today) get forwarding.
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Post by stormyskies on May 23, 2011 13:36:50 GMT
ok am off to contact the news of the world somehow. i searched all over at the weekend on the net for a contact for liz jones but couldnt find a direct one.
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Post by stormyskies on May 23, 2011 13:38:48 GMT
lol have just tried news of thw world website at work and the filter has come on as cateorised as 'tasteless' so access denied
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Post by honeypot on May 23, 2011 13:52:00 GMT
Our local horse dealer who takes in animals for 'killing', would never let his animals get in that condition, they have masses of hay in winter and are all well covered. He's fields are accesible to the public and and his yard is neater that most that I have been on. Last year people were giving him horses, they could not afford to keep them and they did not want the distress of taking them to Potter's. At the other end of the scale there are people with money who's lastest toy does not do what they want and they are sent to him for meat money. He trys to weed out the one's that can be sold for riding horses and there are a couple of ex showjumpers and polo ponies that came through him at our local riding club. In the Uk we have no strong tradition of eating horse but we seem quite happy to eat everything else. Whats important is before something ends up on someones plate its welfare needs are met. It took the last out break of foot and mouth for the transport of sheep and cows from market to market was stopped. I would not like us all to register with DEFRA and get a holding number before we can buy a horse but perhaps if the majority of animals these breeeders are destined for the food chain somewhere they should be classified as meat producers and have to register with DEFRA. I would be interesting to know where the majority of these ponies have ended up, at this sale and in the past
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Post by JadeCannon on May 23, 2011 13:52:24 GMT
Yes we need to contact News of the World, I am off to their website. No doubt you can contact directly through that. Need at least another half a dozen to do likewise. So, if you have nothing better to do (and what better thing to do today) get forwarding. I believe the 'core committee' are compiling a text message at present to be sent 'en masse' to a daily paper - how does everyone feel about this - is this subject worth a text?
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Post by sageandonion on May 23, 2011 14:04:50 GMT
I think whatever and whoever, contact him and his dog. I think if the Core Committee want us to do things in a particular way then let us know. Otherwise, in the absence of a newspaper or mag wanting an exclusive and getting their teeth into it, we need to keep going.
Could the Core Committee perhaps have a central thread advising us what has been done on a coodinated fashion. Unless, of course, it is to be kept quiet for now.
What news from Horse & Hound, could the Committee get in touch with them.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 14:13:45 GMT
I would vote for all individual efforts and intiatives which are most welcome and we will continue to update you as we go along (sage please scroll back a few pages for the update) The Core and Subcomittees are only doing specific things with a directed aim of fullfilling specific objectives and the more engagement there is on the part of everyone, the better in my mind - don't hesitate to do what you feel is best it all helps to get us on the ethical road to better equine management..we love it when you mention what you are doing if possible and it encourages others to do the same! what a forum of "doers" impressive indeed!
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 14:14:32 GMT
oh ps pls do not hesitate to contact Jade Cannon if you would like to be a resource for anything
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supes
Full Member
Posts: 328
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Post by supes on May 23, 2011 14:29:59 GMT
Mr Evans joined the WPCS in 1968 and has life membership as anyone can. He has never had honorary life member ship awarded to him by the WPCS. He has not been a panel judge for many years. I cannot comment on whether or not he is an Honorary Life Member as I do not know. However, you are quite right, he is not a panel judge any longer (as can be seen from the 2011 list of panel judges) though he certainly was a panel judge in the past as I have an old judges list here which lists him...I actually got it after I got Supe`s home so it will be around 14 years old...I am not sure when he came off the judging panel or indeed why. As you are clearly very informed about Mr Evans, perhaps you could tell us his actual age please ? As it would be nice to get the facts on that matter rather than all the different ages which are being bandied about at the moment. I`m 48 by the way, just so you know and don`t think it`s a rude question to ask ;-) Thank you.
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Post by bonnieheather on May 23, 2011 14:35:53 GMT
Could all of those who have had contact back from Watchdog - or any form of media - please PM me.
Thanks
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Post by cheekychops on May 23, 2011 14:49:32 GMT
I dont think banning the meat man would "work" but I think every step that "might" make a difference is worth taking. You can only do what you can do but that should be "everything"!
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Post by jinja on May 23, 2011 15:35:48 GMT
I contacted Liz Jones early last week and she sent an email back that said Thank you nothing more, I attached the photo of the dead mare giving birth and perfect's post on here describing her visit to the stud.
I also contaced watchdog last week and have had no reply.
I contacted the RSPCA several times last week I have had no reply.
I have today contacted News Of The World as requested by S&O.
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 23, 2011 15:46:10 GMT
Mr Evans joined the WPCS in 1968 and has life membership as anyone can. He has never had honorary life member ship awarded to him by the WPCS. He has not been a panel judge for many years. I cannot comment on whether or not he is an Honorary Life Member as I do not know. However, you are quite right, he is not a panel judge any longer (as can be seen from the 2011 list of panel judges) though he certainly was a panel judge in the past as I have an old judges list here which lists him...I actually got it after I got Supe`s home so it will be around 14 years old...I am not sure when he came off the judging panel or indeed why. As you are clearly very informed about Mr Evans, perhaps you could tell us his actual age please ? As it would be nice to get the facts on that matter rather than all the different ages which are being bandied about at the moment. I`m 48 by the way, just so you know and don`t think it`s a rude question to ask ;-) Thank you. On the previous page I wrote that, according to the WPCS Judges Handbook, Mr Evans came off the panel at the end of 2009. Presumably he retired. He was on the Panel for 2009 but not 2010. Hopefully that will clear up that query. However, does his (or anyone else's) age really matter?
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Post by dobiegirl on May 23, 2011 15:47:45 GMT
I think it would be helpful if we could start another thread and entitle it facts.The reason anyone coming on to this site would be daunted by a thread of 34pages and growing and might give up.
I realise it might be tricky but if we could get the attention of someone who might have a resource we could use it would be worth the effort.
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Post by roseview on May 23, 2011 15:50:09 GMT
I see that the website has been cleared of all information, as of 4 hours ago.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 15:51:08 GMT
what website?
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Post by frankie1 on May 23, 2011 15:53:11 GMT
Criccieth Stud's by the looks of things
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Post by gwynsmum on May 23, 2011 15:55:54 GMT
However, does his (or anyone else's) age really matter? in my view age is no excuse for mistreatment of animals, so no, to me it doesn't matter if this man is 100, 80, 60 or 10... don't have animals if you can't care for them.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 15:56:18 GMT
My My, now WHY would one of the largest, and most prestigious breeders in Wales take their site with the wonderful pictures and descriptions of their stock and the loving care that goes into their good breeding practices? What a huge loss for the Welsh breeding world both nationally and internationally not to be able to find referenced these wonderful old, carefully bred and controlled bloodlines! This is indeed an important loss to the general public and luckily we have already saved a copy of this website for historical use.
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Post by gwynsmum on May 23, 2011 15:56:52 GMT
I see that the website has been cleared of all information, as of 4 hours ago. Why would you do that if you have nothing to hide?
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Post by frankie1 on May 23, 2011 16:01:18 GMT
I see that the website has been cleared of all information, as of 4 hours ago. Why would you do that if you have nothing to hide? Maybe he realised he actually has a lot to hide. Well done everyone keep it up .
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