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Post by ponytime on May 23, 2011 16:07:32 GMT
I have followed all of this from sussex, he has too much to hide, he can't hide everything, i got a welsh colt 4yrs ago that came off welsh hills wild and unwormed, spent a whole winter to get him ok. He is now a lovely pony and so glad i got him. Keep up the goodwork, i an right behind you all.
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Post by pencaedu on May 23, 2011 16:12:47 GMT
"Not been" a panel judge for many years tells you that he once was. Pity your command of the English language isn't better or there would have been no need to ask I can assure you, getyourfactsright, my command of English is well above average, hence my noticing how ambiguous your statement actually was - it would also appear, that your term 'many years' was factually inaccurate - I don't call being on the panel in 2009 as 'many years' ago!! I think, perhaps, you need to change your pseudonym to something more accurate!!
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Post by ladywell on May 23, 2011 16:19:15 GMT
Well done someone for having the foresight to save copies of the website!!
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Post by gwynsmum on May 23, 2011 16:21:00 GMT
Why would you do that if you have nothing to hide? Maybe he realised he actually has a lot to hide. Maybe Eirian Jones who is the registered person for the Criccieth Website and who made the alterations about 5 hrs ago is making some amendments and be up and running again soon as obviously all is well at Criccieth Stud... Maybe we could ask Eirian her view on the state of the ponies that were seen and sold at the sales weekend before last...her address is easily found as the registered user of the criccieth website...
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 16:40:06 GMT
Are you referring to this Eirian?
The name Treferthur dates back to the 15th century and generally means township. In this case it specifically refers to the township of Criccieth, Gwynedd, North Wales. The Criccieth stud of Welsh Mountain Ponies is located within what would have been the township of Treferthur and its on the beautiful Criccieth ponies with their Revel bloodlines that this stud is founded, hence the name.
My love of the warmblood riding horse had always existed until my introduction to the Welsh Mountain Pony by the joint founder of this stud Eirian Lloyd Evans, whose father is the behind one of the country's largest Welsh Mountain Pony studs at Criccieth.
To see the pony herds running on the mountains of Snowdonia, fields full of foals and an old mare, Revel Hey Lady , left me with a lifetimes addiction to this spirited, hardy breed. As a result, two select mares Revel Helena and Plasderw Sunray left for Bedfordshire. Their two filly foals Treferthur Hera and Sunshine now partly form the stud foundation stock.
Treferthur stud is nestled on the Northern edge of the Chiltern Hills, The nearest thing to the Mountain! Strongly influenced by the breeding traditions of the late Mr Emrys Griffiths, Revel and Evan Lloyd Evans, Criccieth, my aim is to breed a versatile pony of type with spirit, to combine conformation , hardiness, versatility, beauty and movement. Not only is their beauty so important but breeding for purpose, strength and working ability are important requirements necessary to retain and ensure that the breed qualities laid down in the Welsh stud Book are preserved for the future..
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 16:40:59 GMT
The above post was taken from the internet for Treferthur Stud
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Post by amumwithapony on May 23, 2011 16:55:14 GMT
PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING POST IS MY OWN OPINION, NOT THAT OF HORSE GOSSIP NOR DOES IT IN ANYWAY REFLECT THE FEELINGS OR THOUGHTS OF ANY OF THE OTHER MODERATORS, OR OF ADMIN OR OF PROBOARDS. ITS ALL MY OWN THOUGHTS AND FEELING ON THIS THREAD.
Now I have got that big disclaimer out of the way and you are all quite sure that these are my own thoughts can I say that I admire what you are all trying to achieve and the time and effort that you have spent trying to make things right for the ponies that remain at the stud.
However I have to warn everyone how this thread and facebook page is coming across. I am all for everyone fighting to change things but protesting outside someone's house is simply not the way forward.
Imagine the scene. A group of protestors outside a windswept expanse of wales. A group of journalists and photographers on standby, placcards waving merrily in the wind and a chant of some sort being shouted. Soup and coffee in thermosts being passed around and maybe the odd egg sandwich. Everyone in their best gear, joules and ariats being the chosen brands with the odd pair of £250 dubarrys chucked in for good measure. After all everyone wants to look nice for the press and it could be the first time many of you have met.
Out of the house comes a lone man, maybe 60, maybe 80 who struggles and staggers with bales of hay across his fields to feed his beloved ponies. Who incidently all look quite well. Foals frolic around and the mares come for a scratch and a cuddle and a stallion looks fondly on from over a fence. With a tear in his eye he explains to the assembled press that he has only recently lost his wife after a serious illness and has just had a big sale to try and rehome some of his beloved ponies but now all this mob have turned up and are picking on him.
The mares all look so well and are so well handled because they are not his ponies. They were all whisked away when the first photos went on the internet. The ponies that didnt make it to the sale are probably the ones with foals too young to go through or the mares probably were in a worst state than the Sunwillow mare we saw. Lets all hope they all survived the journeys to wherever they went.
The only evidence you have is 1 picture of the sunwillow mare at the sale with hopefully (I havent examined it that closely) a sale sticker on her rump which will tie her to the stud and the sale. You have a picture of CC Superstar when he was returned 13 years ago and a picture of a mare and foal that is impossible to prove came from his yard.
The RSPCA will go in and see all the ponies looking well and that will be that. The WPCS will close ranks even more and have even more reason to despise the internet, this forum and facebook. The dispersal sales will still go on at various auctions around the country, but with a disclaimer saying they are nothing to do with the WPCS.
At the next sale we have there will be lots of people turning up to rescue a Criccieth pony, or any thin pony for that matter. I don't know how many ponies he still has but those ponies are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to welfare cases. What do you think will happen to them all? Will they all be rescued? I actually hope not because for everyone you rescue and cover the cost of the microchip and passport then another 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 will be bred.
In the meantime the meat man will be buying decent, well covered, well handled stock for a pittance as no one will be interested in them. He will benefit enourmously as will the type of breeder who churns out these sorts of ponies as it will become trendy to buy one that is thin, then post before and after pictures on the internet of it so everyone says what a kind person you are.
The next victim will be the innocent breeder of welsh ponies who looks after his stock, and worms it and handles it and tries to sell it as by this time the Welsh Pony breeder will be tarred with the same brush, while its governing society (the WPCS) goes into meltdown as people either bombard them with problems that they can not solve without the support of its membership, but who the membership won't support because they are the bad guys.
More stringent breeding plans or licenses wont help either because the breeders that breed in this way will find ways round it whilst the rest of us have to pay for the issues they cause.
I suggest if people really are serious about helping these ponies and the welfare of welsh ponies, or any equine for that matter then there are ways to do it without shouting from the rooftops. I am sure that this committee of 10 have lots of things going on that we don't know about, but maybe we ought to know as if it is on a similar line to protesting outside his house, or rescuing the ponies 1 by 1 from the sales then IMO (and again my own personal opinion) you are just adding fuel to the fire.
You need to think about what you are doing and what you are saying in public and online. Any fact that you get wrong will come back to haunt you. Do not turn this into a witch hunt. They were never thought of fondly when it was witches that were being hunted. Ensure that any press you have involved will investigate thoroughly. Do not leave yourselves open to be mis quoted or mis understood. Make sure you cover the legal angles before providing the 3 photographs you have and sit and look at it all very, very dispassionalty before you go ahead with anything. You need the WPCS on your side, you need auction houses and auctioneers to be on your side and you need the press on your side.
If any of them aren't you will achieve nothing and this time next year we will be having the same discussion about the same (or maybe a different stud) with the same debate raging.
To Supes and Sunwillow stud, my thoughts are with you both.
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Post by gwynsmum on May 23, 2011 16:56:41 GMT
Have PM'd you poneydestiny
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Post by cheekychops on May 23, 2011 17:18:41 GMT
Mumwithapony - I know exactly what you are saying. This wont be a pioneering case which will stand triumphant and the start of a world wide abolishment of all pony evil BUT I think you credit people with little intelligence. My understanding of this thread is not that people have just opened there eyes for the first time to what is abbhorent and the dark side for the animals we all love. People know what goes on but every now and then you are reminded in the most horrible way. This is about a mutual compassion and passion for trying to tackle something tangable that has been placed in the public eye at the sales we all go to. There is nothing you can do about the eventual actions of the media or the RSPCA. All you can do is demonstrate your own feelings and hope the passion you have makes a difference. As for a witch hunt.......................... hmmmmm. Its the best way to catch a witch!
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 23, 2011 17:21:08 GMT
Can I just say, if supes is willing to stand up in a court and testify, under oath, that her stallion went to criccieth, and came back in the condition pictured, and if the person who took the picture of the mare that died giving birth, is willing to stand up and testify in court where the picture was taken, and when, then isn't that evidence? That could be used in a prosecution?
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Post by trojan1 on May 23, 2011 17:29:00 GMT
But the first question that would be asked is what exactly did you do about it at the time?
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Post by amumwithapony on May 23, 2011 17:39:58 GMT
The defendants evidence would then be this thread, the facebook pages, the pictures from the news of the world that this has been some sort of hate campaign against him.
And the next point would be that Supes could do nothing at the time (though I believe her when she says she tried) and that the mare at the sales was passed as fit by the vet on the sale grounds at the time to go through the auction. The vet would I presume be classed as an independant witness.
The only organisation who can take a person to court for cruelty is the RSPCA. They have to see the animals suffering at the time to be able to take them away and the animals themselves, or the footage that they have taken themselves becomes the evidence as well as the testimonies of vets who become the indepdant witness even if they are employed by the RSPCA. Thats why we see images in the press when there has been a sucessful court case.
The RSPCA will be very careful at this moment in time about persuing another welsh pony breeder. There was a case recently where the case was thrown out of court by the judge and the person who was accused has made public his feelings on the matter to the press who have sided with him. Whether they were right or wrong to do that I remember the thread on here and similar comments were made about that person and he was found catogorically not guilty. I dont think the RSPCA will be in a rush at this moment in time to investigate or prosecute and as I have said before they are the only people who can presecute for cruelty.
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Post by ladywell on May 23, 2011 17:48:52 GMT
One of my concerns is that the 'lunatic fringe' will attach themselves to this protest and, if there is any violence, that will be attributed to the group organising the protest.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 23, 2011 17:53:14 GMT
I think rather than congregationg outside his farm, you'd be better circulating the flyers in the village and posting them under windscreen wipers in the car parks. And a walk round the town handing them out to anyone who'll take them.
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Post by ringcraft on May 23, 2011 17:56:22 GMT
Sent this to the W.P.C.S this morning as a suggestion for a flyer that could be sent with the next newsletter , what do you think.
EDUCATION AND WELFARE
Every Member needs to play a part in the way that Ponies and Cobs are bred and used Do we need to breed so many foals in an age where financial restrictions are having a huge impact on the prices and sales of equines
Under these present circumstances we advise all Members to think seriously on what they want to breed
Current legislation has and will have a huge impact on the equine industry in general not just the Welsh breed. It is our belief that there are more serious times to come
Always think ahead – what is your purpose in breeding a foal/s
Think carefully. There is a huge surplus of Ponies, Cobs and other breeds in this country. A visit to a number of markets will confirm this factor
It is better to act now before the situation in the UK becomes a serious problem . We are of the opinion that the welfare issues are on a serious upward trend
Often ponies and Cobs are being bought and sold in a short period of time, sometimes being taken to several markets before they are off loaded
Now is the time for members of the biggest society in the UK to take a lead role and show that we do care about all the issues and welfare in particular
We, members of the W.P.C.S. must show that we care and have the welfare of our equines at heart
European legislation has created an increased financial burden on the owners of all equines. Please ensure that we are not responsible for any suffering or welfare issues in the future
Look carefully at what you want to do with your foal/s and is there a market for what you are breeding
For the future of this society – every member needs to carefully consider their aims and objectives. We consider that it may take several years for any noticeable improvement
Always consider the role that you have as the owner of a horse or pony. If you encounter problems it is much easier to seek help at an early stage – leaving it too late can have serious consequences.
Remember we are a Breed Society and the Welfare branch is there to assist. We are not a rescue organization, but where appropriate may help by advising owners of Ponies or Cobs during difficult times
Ensure you do the right thing for your Ponies or Cobs, they depend on you for so many things – Feed, Worming, Farriery, Dentistry, Veterinary care and other matters that now come within the scope of Care and Welfare of our equines. In return we are sure you will be rewarded with the happiness and immense pleasure that they give us
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Post by sageandonion on May 23, 2011 18:12:52 GMT
I don't DO Facebook. As you will know by now, I don't do rough pony sales either and have taking a public battering on more than one occasion, on my own I might add. I feel as passionate as the most passionate. So it is very sad I am to hear of planned protests and the like.
I think we should continue to try for media support to highlight the situation and present evidence with a capital "E" to the Authorities who are able to protect and/or remove ponies.
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 23, 2011 18:15:39 GMT
Ringcraft - Very sensible.
As are the words of amumwithapony. Please. take heed.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 18:34:10 GMT
Dear Mum! Thank you for the very thoughtful remarks that you have made in your last two posts which we will make sure all members of the Committee are apprised of. We would love to have you as a supporting hands on member in whatever capacity you feel interest in could you contact Jade if you could dedicate some of your thoughfullness directly within the groups?
Dear Ringcraft, Superb letter which we would be happy to support Again an offer to assist us directly?
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Post by heathers on May 23, 2011 18:50:32 GMT
has anyone contacted S4C
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Post by amumwithapony on May 23, 2011 18:52:44 GMT
I am sorry but I wont be joining your committee in any capacity. I don't agree with cruelty in any form or neglect but feel that the way you are running things or organising your commitee will end up causing more problems than what it will solve.
The one resounding arguement that keeps going round and round in my head is that for years and years people have 'rescued' at sales and I don't (like S & O, and have also had several heated debates) support sales or the people that buy at them to rescue a half starved pony, nor the breeder that sends them there.
My time and effort would be better spent trying to make people aware of the fact that if people stop buying at sales, over breeding will eventually stop as there will be no market for the surplus stock.
It will be a hard, bitter lesson for some people to learn and it will no doubt in the short term cause more, not less suffering for some ponies. But eventually the overbreeding question will cease to be an issue as people like the stud in question simply wont be able to move anything other than straight to the meat man. Which will be counter productive.
As well as this stud is anyone thinking about any of the other big studs and their ponies and the welfare of those ponies? At least this stud is sending mares to the sales, not just colt foals and retaining fillies. What state are their mares in? And stallions and stuff that never, ever gets seen in public? And how many welsh ponies are there in the UK that are suffering? Or shetlands? Or TB's or coloured gypsy cobs?
This studs problems are just a tiny proportion of what is really happening, just the very tip of a very large iceberg. Rescuing his mares and stallions and foals wont stop the problem. Maybe if you achieve your aims in getting the ponies out you could use the associated publicity to try and educate and promote underbreeding.
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Post by sageandonion on May 23, 2011 18:52:49 GMT
Dear Mum! Thank you for the very thoughtful remarks that you have made in your last two posts which we will make sure all members of the Committee are apprised of. We would love to have you as a supporting hands on member in whatever capacity you feel interest in could you contact Jade if you could dedicate some of your thoughfullness directly within the groups? Dear Ringcraft, Superb letter which we would be happy to support Again an offer to assist us directly? PD can the 'Committee' please rethink, you post sounds quite patronising. The Committee has not been elected by us and I for one am getting very uncomfortable with how this is going.
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Post by poneydestiny on May 23, 2011 19:02:57 GMT
OK my apologies have been at this nonstop for 16 hours today for these ponies and starting to flag - there are huge positive efforts underway to address on many levels all of the concerns being voiced and our only interest is the best interests of the ponies in question and the parallel efforts that are required to address the problems on a more top down basis It is important for us to hear your comments as we are fine tuning on a minute by minute basis and I repeat anyone who has strong views and would like to assist are more than welcome - I would also like to thank the many many people who have come forward to assist us in a confidential manner
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kayjayem
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Post by kayjayem on May 23, 2011 19:17:15 GMT
I still maintain if there was an upset price at the sales these ponies would never reach the sale ring and if by any chance they did I do not think there would be as many people ready to "rescue" them or make "impulse" purchases if they had to pay above meat price for them. If this outlet was removed it would be a deterrent to the mass overbreeding, as no-one(or very few) would go buying stock directly from the stud if it were in that state.
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Post by victoria (highhill) on May 23, 2011 19:33:42 GMT
As usual amumwithapony talks a lot of sense
I havent commented on this thread until now but have been reading it all and taking it all in. I dont think there is a lot of point to loads of people all just saying isnt it awful. I agree that how these ponies have been kept is awful. But have to say that if Brightwells hadnt let the sunwillow mare go through the sale she surely would have just stayed at Criccieth falling apart. Where i think Brightwells messed up a bit was by altering their statement after the first one.
When a child is killed at the hands of its parents - people are always quick to jump in and say its the councils fault or social services fault because the child was on the at risk register - NO ITS NOT IT WAS THE PARENTS FAULT and its the same here - the person at fault is the owner of the animals not Brightwells not WPCS and not the RSPCA (who incidentally I have no time for at all) .
Yes the WPCS can do things such as banning a member and thereby refusing to register their stock but the owner has to be ultimately responsible. I know for a fact that if we took a cow to market looking like the Sunwillow pony we would be in a ll sorts of trouble. The auctioneers wouldnt be neither would the Beef Shorthorn Society - we would be
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Post by lillicob on May 23, 2011 19:42:20 GMT
PLEASE NOTE THE FOLLOWING POST IS MY OWN OPINION, NOT THAT OF HORSE GOSSIP NOR DOES IT IN ANYWAY REFLECT THE FEELINGS OR THOUGHTS OF ANY OF THE OTHER MODERATORS, OR OF ADMIN OR OF PROBOARDS. ITS ALL MY OWN THOUGHTS AND FEELING ON THIS THREAD. Now I have got that big disclaimer out of the way and you are all quite sure that these are my own thoughts can I say that I admire what you are all trying to achieve and the time and effort that you have spent trying to make things right for the ponies that remain at the stud. However I have to warn everyone how this thread and facebook page is coming across. I am all for everyone fighting to change things but protesting outside someone's house is simply not the way forward. Imagine the scene. A group of protestors outside a windswept expanse of wales. A group of journalists and photographers on standby, placcards waving merrily in the wind and a chant of some sort being shouted. Soup and coffee in thermosts being passed around and maybe the odd egg sandwich. Everyone in their best gear, joules and ariats being the chosen brands with the odd pair of £250 dubarrys chucked in for good measure. After all everyone wants to look nice for the press and it could be the first time many of you have met. Out of the house comes a lone man, maybe 60, maybe 80 who struggles and staggers with bales of hay across his fields to feed his beloved ponies. Who incidently all look quite well. Foals frolic around and the mares come for a scratch and a cuddle and a stallion looks fondly on from over a fence. With a tear in his eye he explains to the assembled press that he has only recently lost his wife after a serious illness and has just had a big sale to try and rehome some of his beloved ponies but now all this mob have turned up and are picking on him. The mares all look so well and are so well handled because they are not his ponies. They were all whisked away when the first photos went on the internet. The ponies that didnt make it to the sale are probably the ones with foals too young to go through or the mares probably were in a worst state than the Sunwillow mare we saw. Lets all hope they all survived the journeys to wherever they went. The only evidence you have is 1 picture of the sunwillow mare at the sale with hopefully (I havent examined it that closely) a sale sticker on her rump which will tie her to the stud and the sale. You have a picture of CC Superstar when he was returned 13 years ago and a picture of a mare and foal that is impossible to prove came from his yard. The RSPCA will go in and see all the ponies looking well and that will be that. The WPCS will close ranks even more and have even more reason to despise the internet, this forum and facebook. The dispersal sales will still go on at various auctions around the country, but with a disclaimer saying they are nothing to do with the WPCS. At the next sale we have there will be lots of people turning up to rescue a Criccieth pony, or any thin pony for that matter. I don't know how many ponies he still has but those ponies are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to welfare cases. What do you think will happen to them all? Will they all be rescued? I actually hope not because for everyone you rescue and cover the cost of the microchip and passport then another 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 will be bred. In the meantime the meat man will be buying decent, well covered, well handled stock for a pittance as no one will be interested in them. He will benefit enourmously as will the type of breeder who churns out these sorts of ponies as it will become trendy to buy one that is thin, then post before and after pictures on the internet of it so everyone says what a kind person you are. The next victim will be the innocent breeder of welsh ponies who looks after his stock, and worms it and handles it and tries to sell it as by this time the Welsh Pony breeder will be tarred with the same brush, while its governing society (the WPCS) goes into meltdown as people either bombard them with problems that they can not solve without the support of its membership, but who the membership won't support because they are the bad guys. More stringent breeding plans or licenses wont help either because the breeders that breed in this way will find ways round it whilst the rest of us have to pay for the issues they cause. I suggest if people really are serious about helping these ponies and the welfare of welsh ponies, or any equine for that matter then there are ways to do it without shouting from the rooftops. I am sure that this committee of 10 have lots of things going on that we don't know about, but maybe we ought to know as if it is on a similar line to protesting outside his house, or rescuing the ponies 1 by 1 from the sales then IMO (and again my own personal opinion) you are just adding fuel to the fire. You need to think about what you are doing and what you are saying in public and online. Any fact that you get wrong will come back to haunt you. Do not turn this into a witch hunt. They were never thought of fondly when it was witches that were being hunted. Ensure that any press you have involved will investigate thoroughly. Do not leave yourselves open to be mis quoted or mis understood. Make sure you cover the legal angles before providing the 3 photographs you have and sit and look at it all very, very dispassionalty before you go ahead with anything. You need the WPCS on your side, you need auction houses and auctioneers to be on your side and you need the press on your side. If any of them aren't you will achieve nothing and this time next year we will be having the same discussion about the same (or maybe a different stud) with the same debate raging. To Supes and Sunwillow stud, my thoughts are with you both. Completely agree with this. My last post i made on this thread was because i didnt like where it was heading. You have to be extremely careful how things are worded and what is said, it does appear that people are going for the jugular with Mr Evans, and i as much as anyone else want justice to be served but only the RSPCA can act like i have said before. I wanted to concentrate efforts to helping prevent cases like this in the future, making changes within the WPCS and at official sales. There will be alot of people who are friends with Mr Evans reading this and probably the same with the Facebook page. I know of a couple of things that have happened over the years that as quick as they have been exposed have been covered up and never heard about again. Completely agree that we need the WPCS etc on side. If the RSPCA visit and they are satisfied with the ponies condition the WPCS will then probably release a statement, we will all be accused of victimisation and then nothing will change. This is a chance to make changes. I'm hoping the ponies are removed, but i know of one case where she was fined £12,000 her groom was banned for life from keeping or working with horses, and she got the mare back . We have all worked hard to get this noticed and it is a really good opportunity.
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Post by pippard on May 23, 2011 19:57:31 GMT
Following my last posting I have been speaking to a breeder of some 60 years experience, who own somewhere in the region of 35 mares on a holding of just under a 100 acres. I asked how many foals they were expecting this year and was told none and they did not breed any last year and only four in 2009. Why because there is no market at the moment and they are responsible stud owners.
This person in not the first Welsh pony breeder I have spoken to who has cut back on there breeding programme dramatically.
So, please be careful not to give the public the idea that all those who breed Welsh ponies are all irresponsible breeder, the majority are not.
Concentrate your efforts on getting the RSPCA to take action on the mare that went through the sale where there is proof of cruelty and getting the WPCS to take action against this person for bring the society into public disgrace.
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Post by marymary on May 23, 2011 20:03:58 GMT
Ringcraft what a superbly worded letter , WPCS for once listen to what people are saying rather than doing what the select few wishes
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Post by ringcraft on May 23, 2011 20:12:34 GMT
I personally think people should send their constructive ideas and suggestions to the W.P.C.S for the attention of Council and try and get them to recognise that there is a major problem here which needs addressing immediately . I am sure there are some Council Members who will try and get the changes that are needed to put things on the right track .
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Post by Milliesmum on May 23, 2011 21:03:39 GMT
I agree with highhill - the responsibility fo rthe condition of the sunwillow mare lies squarely at the door of Mr. Evans and no one else.
However, that said, the other organisations involved in the sale, i.e. the WPCS and Brightwells, need to be seen to be sending out the right signals, that this is unacceptable and they will no longer condone or aid and abet ponies being sold in this condition. It isn't a black and white situation, and there are many and complex reasons why this indiscriminate breeding continues year after year, but if all involved did their little bit then together we could make the changes that are needed.
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Post by JadeCannon on May 23, 2011 21:17:20 GMT
PD can the 'Committee' please rethink, you post sounds quite patronising. The Committee has not been elected by us and I for one am getting very uncomfortable with how this is going. S&O - sorry - some people that are interested in seeing this forward- in a correct, legal, organised and professional manner, are working as hard and as quick as they can - if nothing is posted on here, others wonder what is happening. If a post is made in haste - perhaps without careful thought and attention to the wording - then the 'group' is seen detrementaly (sp?) Please all, understand that the people in this group are 'trying' to make a difference - not just in this case - but ALL cases but you have to start somewhere. These people are honestly working thier butts off to try and harness the incredible emotion we all felt on seeing Sunwillow Hernani. As a group we would love your support through this - but please keep the comments coming - the group is happy to address its 'failings' as well as sucesses. Obviously if this group continues to build on the success, with press and media interest and becomes 'an organisation / charity etc - then all current members will obviously under go open elections etc - this will not and never be a 'closed' community. (sorry about spelling- i have to go reply to 50 emails from volunteers now!)
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