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Post by hs on May 23, 2011 21:47:12 GMT
You are so right Mr Evans starved his ponies. However more could have been done by others to help. Had BW/the vet or the WPCS welfare officer informed the RSPCA that the only reason they ponies were approved for sale in that condition was they felt the ponies welfare would be further compromised by returning them to the stud I am sure the RSPCA would have taken action as they tend to respect breed societies and vets. Hopefully all parties will learn from their mistakes and the publicity will make some people think twice about breeding more ponies than they are either financially or physically able to care for or sending ponies to sales in that condition in the hope of a "pity" sale. I agree with highhill - the responsibility fo rthe condition of the sunwillow mare lies squarely at the door of Mr. Evans and no one else. However, that said, the other organisations involved in the sale, i.e. the WPCS and Brightwells, need to be seen to be sending out the right signals, that this is unacceptable and they will no longer condone or aid and abet ponies being sold in this condition. It isn't a black and white situation, and there are many and complex reasons why this indiscriminate breeding continues year after year, but if all involved did their little bit then together we could make the changes that are needed.
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supes
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Post by supes on May 23, 2011 23:30:23 GMT
I cannot comment on whether or not he is an Honorary Life Member as I do not know. However, you are quite right, he is not a panel judge any longer (as can be seen from the 2011 list of panel judges) though he certainly was a panel judge in the past as I have an old judges list here which lists him...I actually got it after I got Supe`s home so it will be around 14 years old...I am not sure when he came off the judging panel or indeed why. As you are clearly very informed about Mr Evans, perhaps you could tell us his actual age please ? As it would be nice to get the facts on that matter rather than all the different ages which are being bandied about at the moment. I`m 48 by the way, just so you know and don`t think it`s a rude question to ask ;-) Thank you. On the previous page I wrote that, according to the WPCS Judges Handbook, Mr Evans came off the panel at the end of 2009. Presumably he retired. He was on the Panel for 2009 but not 2010. Hopefully that will clear up that query. However, does his (or anyone else's) age really matter? Sorry, amongst the many other postings I somehow missed yours! With regards to his age, I was asking for a very specific reason which I am not going to go into on here as I think far too much is being said now...there is no element of surprise anymore as to what is going to be done, Evan Evans has been forewarned of just about everything that is going to happen and rest assured has taken action to ensure it is the protesters who end up having egg on their faces and not him, as Mumwithapony has said so eloquently in her own words, the conditions at the Stud that will see many protesters outside it at the weekend will certainly not be the same conditions as were at that Stud say three weeks ago - Evan Evans has been warned by the postings of many hundreds, indeed thousands of people what should be done at his Stud and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that it will have now been done to the best of his and his friends abilities.
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Post by sparrow on May 23, 2011 23:46:10 GMT
I agree with hs but, if the vet passed these ponies because he thought selling them was preferable to returning them to Criccieth
What did he do to ensure that they were going, or have gone, to better homes? is anyone checking on them? does anyone know where they have gone? he may well have sent them to worse or similar homes.
If he didn't want to send ponies back to Criccieth why didn't he ask the RSPCA or Trading Standards to visit the stud to check the condition of the remainder of the ponies.?
If the Vet had set the wheels in motion when he first saw the ponies at the sale there would not have been time to move the remainder from the stud.
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Post by jinja on May 24, 2011 6:24:38 GMT
I agree with hs but, if the vet passed these ponies because he thought selling them was preferable to returning them to Criccieth What did he do to ensure that they were going, or have gone, to better homes? is anyone checking on them? does anyone know where they have gone? he may well have sent them to worse or similar homes. If he didn't want to send ponies back to Criccieth why didn't he ask the RSPCA or Trading Standards to visit the stud to check the condition of the remainder of the ponies.? If the Vet had set the wheels in motion when he first saw the ponies at the sale there would not have been time to move the remainder from the stud. That is exactly what I think if the vet had reported this mare to thr RSPCA they would have gone and found the ponies at the stud in the condition they were at the time. However I do not blame anyone but Mr Evans for the cruelty inflicted on these poor ponies.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 6:48:20 GMT
Sorry, whose tyres have been slashed?
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Post by poneydestiny on May 24, 2011 6:49:56 GMT
On a more positive note
There are those of you who have demonstrated a real gift of wordcraft - how about a "Prayer From a Welsh Pony" which would be used for children to address the issues at hand with a nice photo which we could use in and create a stand alone PR piece for the little ones - your name would be placed as author of course!
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Post by poneydestiny on May 24, 2011 6:52:04 GMT
I would not like to say but they were well slashed two nights ago and I might add NOT from an evident helper (ie those of us who are easily identified on the sites)
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Post by poneydestiny on May 24, 2011 6:53:13 GMT
By the way, not in a parking lot or anything like that and they were the tires of the horse transport vehicle so the message was clear
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 6:57:49 GMT
Whose tyres have been slashed?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 7:06:15 GMT
Well I hope a report's been made to the police and a crime number obtained, for your dossier of evidence?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 7:08:01 GMT
I think what poneydestiny was saying, correct me if I'm wrong, is that a person who may be suspected of being involved with the outcry against animal cruelty, has had the tyres of their lorry slashed? Am I right?
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Post by poneydestiny on May 24, 2011 7:08:51 GMT
It has always been out of hand, as each time someone has tried to make a difference DURING THE PAST 20 YEARS, they have been subject to these kinds of things. NOW is the time to SORT the problems which have been festering and SORT the people who are the cause of the problems. This is not a difficult task it just needs some strong engagement which we are currently seeing on all fronts. Absolutely a police report has been made which is an important step in the right direction
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 7:18:52 GMT
Well let me tell you how it is appearing to me. You have formed a Core Committee representing who? please don't think it is all of us, and at least some of you have an axe to grind for years.
Personally I think you had better go and do whatever you are intent on doing and the rest of us will plug on trying to get the media to take up the issue and try to get the WPCS, RSPCA etc to do something.
You need to look at what and how you are doing things and ask yourself, if you have lost my respect so quickly, how will the authorities view you.
May I suggest that, if you genuinely want us peaceful people to continue, you keep your activities and plans to yourself and liaise in private.
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Post by heathers on May 24, 2011 7:35:44 GMT
Dr Wynne Davies tried to bring the Criccieth ponies to everyones attention at the 2009 AGM and was ordered to sit down and mind his own business, which he did as not one of the 350 members backed him up,soon after he was sacked from a very large show as commentator which he had done for over 30 years.so you see, he tried to stop the suffering over 2 years ago but had no support
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Post by perfectponies on May 24, 2011 7:48:07 GMT
Please can I ask a simple question - Apologies if I'm being thick - but does anyone know if the RSPCA have been to Criccieth since the Brightwell sale - yes I have read that ponies have been moved etc but have the RSPCA actually been out to the stud? Many Thanks
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Post by sageandonion on May 24, 2011 8:53:18 GMT
I am going to concentrate my energies with the RSPCA today, may I suggest others also do so. Personally I am not interested in hearing about demonstrations and slashed tyres, that is not the way to do things.
May I remind you all, that this is the UK and people are presumed innocent until proven guilty.
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Post by hs on May 24, 2011 9:00:52 GMT
That is what BW appear to be saying, that they only passed the ponies because they believed that going through the sale ring was a better prospect than returning to the stud.
Has anyone asked BW why they did not do more if this is the case? I think I might drop them a email, not that I am expecting a response from them.
quote author=sparrow board=general thread=84042 post=711313 time=1306194370]I agree with hs but, if the vet passed these ponies because he thought selling them was preferable to returning them to Criccieth
What did he do to ensure that they were going, or have gone, to better homes? is anyone checking on them? does anyone know where they have gone? he may well have sent them to worse or similar homes.
If he didn't want to send ponies back to Criccieth why didn't he ask the RSPCA or Trading Standards to visit the stud to check the condition of the remainder of the ponies.?
If the Vet had set the wheels in motion when he first saw the ponies at the sale there would not have been time to move the remainder from the stud. [/quote]
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Post by CarolineNelson on May 24, 2011 9:21:58 GMT
TIRES SLASHED Could some of you ex military men sort this and get this kind of thuggery stopped. Wales is a small place, you all know the players, we apparently have a group who are keen on reprisals and criminal acts and HAVE BEEN FOR 20 YEARS. Now is the time to stop this. Can some of you get together and go to ground to get the message to the ears of those who are subjecting positive thinking and acting people to thuggery because this handful of criminals are too cowardly to work towards positive change poneyDestiny:- What do you propose that the "ex military men" are going to do once they have "gone to ground"? You quote the time span "20 years" - perhaps you could explain this to the uninvolved please? This smacks somewhat of sectarianism. Two wrongs don't make a right and I for one am in full agreement with Sage & Onion here that the ethos of reducing welfare problems caused by over-breeding are being smothered by old feuds which should have been put to bed long ago. May your group be reminded that your PR person JadeCannon last night (10.17pm, 23rd May) said that events were being handled (and here I quote) "... in a correct, organised and professional manner..." ....."but please keep the comments coming, the group is happy to address it's failings as well as it's sucesses...." Please ensure that your "group" acts for the excluded equine community in a suitably professional manner. Gloves must not come off.
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Post by twofatladies88 on May 24, 2011 9:42:28 GMT
pp - someone posted further back that an appointment has been made by the RSPCA to visit the premises today allegedly.
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Post by blacksheep on May 24, 2011 9:53:19 GMT
Is it true that these ponies don't have to have passports? so there'll be no proof of ownership (or not) if the RSPCA do visit and are shown ponies that have been shipped in recently.
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Post by jinja on May 24, 2011 10:12:07 GMT
Well let me tell you how it is appearing to me. You have formed a Core Committee representing who? please don't think it is all of us, and at least some of you have an axe to grind for years. Personally I think you had better go and do whatever you are intent on doing and the rest of us will plug on trying to get the media to take up the issue and try to get the WPCS, RSPCA etc to do something. You need to look at what and how you are doing things and ask yourself, if you have lost my respect so quickly, how will the authorities view you. May I suggest that, if you genuinely want us peaceful people to continue, you keep your activities and plans to yourself and liaise in private. Fully agree with all of the above.
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 10:26:06 GMT
RSPCA - is 'in action' along with other welfare organisations - I am not sure on the details and please please please keep asking for them to visit the stud etc - we need everyone working for these ponies on this one - I am not sure how much of the RSPCA work is currently - 'on the ground' as opposed to investigations higher up and spreading multi-branches of the RSPCA - as others have hinted there are perhaps places the ponies have been taken - i presume the rspca will be looking into this as well as just criccieth??
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 10:27:57 GMT
Actually I think, due to messages received from people who are finding this a little uncomfortable, that any comments or instructions/information regarding the organised protest are best done on the facebook page that has been created for that purpose. Not everyone who has posted on this thread is in agreement with any protest - I'm trying to take on board all views and keep this thread open for those that want to go down the route of lobbying the various organisations to get them to take appropriate action.
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 10:29:29 GMT
I also presume that H&H - as per their FB page will be running the story on thur and presume they will be in direct contact with RSPCA about this - therefore I would presume the RSPCA will want to ensure their investigation involves all areas and provides 'hopefully' a shining outcome for their futur press releases
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 10:42:42 GMT
poneyDestiny:- What do you propose that the "ex military men" are going to do once they have "gone to ground"? You quote the time span "20 years" - perhaps you could explain this to the uninvolved please? This smacks somewhat of sectarianism. Two wrongs don't make a right and I for one am in full agreement with Sage & Onion here that the ethos of reducing welfare problems caused by over-breeding are being smothered by old feuds which should have been put to bed long ago. May your group be reminded that your PR person JadeCannon last night (10.17pm, 23rd May) said that events were being handled (and here I quote) "... in a correct, organised and professional manner..." ....."but please keep the comments coming, the group is happy to address it's failings as well as it's sucesses...." Please ensure that your "group" acts for the excluded equine community in a suitably professional manner. Gloves must not come off. Sorry - please can you explain sectarianism? Also please please dont add me as PR! I am simply trying to help explain that everyone wants to make a difference and we have 'clubbed together' and combined our efforts - 'we' do not say we are in anyway 'better' than anyone else - you are all welcome to join the effort - 'we' simply think that 5,6,7,8,9 - 20plus heads are better than one. It is suitably saddening that someone close by has had thier tyres slashed - who knows why and what for but they had made some comments prior to it being done and therefore it does lead you in that direction - a very sad state of affairs in my opinion Ok now for the bit about the overbreeding issue - this is something that is agreed by ? all ? most people (in general) - there needs to be some regulation on breeding but - you need a spark to start a fire - Criccieth (Well Sunwillow Hernini) = the spark then we just need to keep it burning and tackle the whole overbreeding issue. Does that make sense? 'We' do not expect people to 'follow' us or our efforts in particular - we just want to keep you informed of things 'our group' has found out - so any individuals out there who would like to know can just read it here rather than trawl the internet / ring / send letters etc It does make more sense to work together - after all - we all want happy ponies
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Post by JadeCannon on May 24, 2011 10:47:31 GMT
Actually I think, due to messages received from people who are finding this a little uncomfortable, that any comments or instructions/information regarding the organised protest are best done on the facebook page that has been created for that purpose. Not everyone who has posted on this thread is in agreement with any protest - I'm trying to take on board all views and keep this thread open for those that want to go down the route of lobbying the various organisations to get them to take appropriate action. Ok sounds fine with me - but I havent posted about a demo/protest - I am unsure of how anyone in our combined people can stop anyone who likes the idea of the protest posting on this thread - again i am not in control of anyone, PD is not 'in control' of anyone - we are all individuals purely combining our resources so I am unsure how this would be checked?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 10:50:36 GMT
Jade, I'm not asking anyone to take control over what is posted, just asking that individuals who want to get involved in any protest/demo (and that is entirely their business), use the facebook page to share information, as I've had messages from people who do support the cause but don't want to be associated with this particular aspect of it. Hope that makes sense.
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Post by pippard on May 24, 2011 10:51:11 GMT
Sageandonion and Jinja I get the same feeling. If members are so incensed (quite rightly) by this situation, may I ask how many of them voted for the council members this year, how many of them took time out to go to the AGM and take an interest in how the Society is being run and how many of them have put a formal complaint in to the Society about this breeder regarding the poor condition of the is mare that was sold? Any member who the courage they were born with will do so, but be careful do not ask for a disciplinary investigation on grounds of unfit for sale (the animal was passed fit by a vet) any complaint has to be on the grounds that the low condition of the mare has brought the society into public disrepute.
As for those who say they cannot publicly standard up and be counted, I had better not express how I feel.
With regards to the WPCS publicity officer speaking at the AGM, no recall of the Cricceth ponies being mentioned but an attack on the hill breeders and a photo of a pony in poor condition was being sent round. That pony was not owned by a WPCS member therefore not relevant. Welfare and cruelty issues are not pacifically a hill pony problem and the Improvement Societies has made great strides to monitor and address any problems on the hills, can the same be said for lowland breeders.
I have listened to the publicity officer on many occasions and read his reports and while I have great admiration for his tremendous knowledge of the breed and all his wonderful books have done to help the society over the years, would love to have his memory bank. I have found the his facts and figures on the publicity front are not always accurate and like many other find the constant referrals to the connections to his own stock very boring. This is really not the right thing for a the Society publicity officer to be mentioning; rarely are they relevant to his report. Sorry Sir, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time.
Another note on the over breeding front, if this is so prevalent among the Welsh breeds then why are number at auctions down and why are registrations down, around a 1000 last year?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on May 24, 2011 10:54:02 GMT
With regard to the registrations being down, is that because people aren't bothering to register foals when they can't recoup the costs? Cheaper to get an on the day chip and passport and ship them off to who knows where.
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Post by ozpoz on May 24, 2011 10:56:23 GMT
I've been following this here and on facebook it's obvious that people will have their own ways of following up on the abuse that has been thrust under our noses in graphic photographs. There are different ways to deal with it, and I'm sure everyone with concerns for welsh ponies and breeding as a whole, will be able to tolerate and accept that not everyone will act/ respond in the same way.
So, whether you favour writing letters or emails increasing awareness direct action in the form of a peaceful protest promoting GOOD breeders and buying from them directly or making suggestions to improve the roles of registered charities in general. Lets not waste time and energy in splitting hairs about differing ways of opposing a situation that responsible horse owners and breeders abhor.
I'm writing this because it was beginning to sound a bit Monty Pythonesque.... "Splitter!" ( apologies if you don't know the sketch but there's always YOUtube) ;D Carry on, please, everyone!
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