gh
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Post by gh on Jun 6, 2007 10:52:03 GMT
I understand Mrs Bown's irritation but whereas this website is a surce of useful information, sometimes humour I do believe that it's the anonimity that allows some real witches to defame a judge's ability and too often their integrity. If I have something to say, if it's the truth I'll say it. It''s never done me any harm in life or in horses and ponies. Frankly to hide behind anonimity excusing it because "of the consequences in the ring, being put down as a result of speaking out are rubbish" Everyone wants to win of course, but it's an impossible expectation. Judging is subjective, I wasn't at Midlands County but Mrs Bown's comment about ponies being overbent mirrors my views epressed in H&H letter last year. Don't riders understand that ponies can't walk out with their noses on their chests and that contact is different for the 3 paces. stand in front of them as they walk towards you and watch them plait and fiddle along. I'm told that's how judges like them to go. I doubt it, and obviously Mrs Bown doesn't.. More power to her.
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Post by clobo121082 on Jun 6, 2007 11:03:45 GMT
I have to say i agree with the comments of ponies overbent. I know it is not always jockey/trainer faults and ponies just naturally do it but i don't get this sudden trend for natives to go around the ring with there heads on their chests (or really sitting up as it is called) being pushed out of their natural paces. So many times have i seen ponies win that go like this, it seems the 'proper' way of going is being lost to flashy movement. I always thought that m&ms were suppose to go in a natural outline?? this is what makes there way of going different to that of the sp/shp.
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Post by ponygirl on Jun 6, 2007 17:10:35 GMT
I have a great deal of respect for Mrs Bown - a very knowledgeable lady and a great judge. I actually think it is a very said state of affairs that she, or any judge for that matter, feel that they have to come on this site to justify their decisions. As competitors we choose to put our ponies up to be judged and part of that process is accepting the judges decision on the day. Not everyone is going to like the same set of ponies each season and wouldn't it be dull if they did. As the old saying goes "You pay your money and you take your choice". If that particular judge doesn't like your pony as much as someone elses then accept their decision, (as that's what you paid your entry fee to find out) smile graciously and walk away and don't show under them again if you believe that you were beaten by inferior ponies. Perhaps the hardest thing to do as a competitor is to be subjective about your own pony and look at it critically rather than through rose coloured classes.
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Post by ednalad on Jun 6, 2007 17:21:14 GMT
well said ponygirl........i totally agree...
and here here for mrs brown.....dont know her, never been under her ...but like her comments and thanks for giving up your time to judge !!!
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Post by Rockstar on Jun 6, 2007 18:47:20 GMT
well said pony girl!
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Post by Enthusiast on Jun 6, 2007 19:10:15 GMT
I cannot believe that showing has come to this; a judge having to publicly justify there actions because of some sad, faceless individuals.
When I read some of the comments on here I cannot understand why anyone would want to become a judge. If i wanted to be publicly hung out to dry i could think of far better ways & ones which weren't so time consuming.
Mods is there not some way of stopping this. I appreciate that we are all entitled to our opinions & that this is a public forum, but surely some of the remarks on here border on character deformation, which is not right. If it continues in this vein for the rest of the season we will have no judges left.
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gh
Full Member
Posts: 493
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Post by gh on Jun 6, 2007 19:28:26 GMT
There is one sure way of stopping the outrageous defamatory remarks made by those people our pastime of showing could do well without. REMOVE THE ANONIMITY. If anyone has something constructive to say, say it, if it's true you will get support, if not, suffer the cosequences. The bile spewed out by those few who will say anything because they cannot accept gracefully an opinion they have sought, is beyond the contempt of most of us. If you cannot take it in good grace, clear off and do something else, and let those of us who are more pragmatic about the judges decisions get on and enjoy it.
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Post by geegee69 on Jun 6, 2007 19:35:02 GMT
I agree with "you pay your money you take your chance" and a judge should put the best pony forward in their opinion and everyone has their own preferances as far as ponies go! But judges should be accountable when a pony is rewarded for bad performance. As the saying goes " You pay your money you take your chance."
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judge
Junior Member
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Post by judge on Jun 6, 2007 20:39:16 GMT
I am sorry but anybody coming on this site to defend their judging is just sinking to the same level as the whingers. Only judges who are unsure of themselves would justify themselves in this way.
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Post by but on Jun 6, 2007 20:45:46 GMT
Im sorry but its only human nature, i'm sure you would do the same if it was you someone was questioning - no matter how sure of yourself you are. Also, its good that judges can have the opportunity to publically justify their decisions, i for one am definitely going to look out for Mrs Bown judging in future, because I really like her reasoning and attitude.
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Post by Guestless on Jun 7, 2007 9:11:06 GMT
Mods is there not some way of stopping this. I appreciate that we are all entitled to our opinions & that this is a public forum, but surely some of the remarks on here border on character deformation, which is not right. We do try to take action when a comment is obviously libellous, but if we are missing some, then please point them out to us. The whole ethos of this site is about people having a public forum to make their comments - which most of them do behind the judges' backs anyway, so at least on here the judge has a right of reply. There is one sure way of stopping the outrageous defamatory remarks made by those people our pastime of showing could do well without. REMOVE THE ANONIMITY. If anyone has something constructive to say, say it, if it's true you will get support, if not, suffer the cosequences. We've already tried that and the site was far too quiet and the members voted in favour of restoring the anonymity. I am sorry but anybody coming on this site to defend their judging is just sinking to the same level as the whingers. Only judges who are unsure of themselves would justify themselves in this way. I totally disagree with this - I think it takes a judge who is very confident in their actions to come on here and answer their critics.
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judge
Junior Member
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Post by judge on Jun 7, 2007 9:29:53 GMT
Or make excuses for their judging?
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Post by Guestless on Jun 7, 2007 9:54:52 GMT
Or make excuses for their judging? If that's how you see it, then that is your opinion but I think from the comments on this thread, most people are a bit more open-minded.
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Post by skint on Jun 7, 2007 10:09:04 GMT
Its now getting ridiculous the amount of slagging that is going on. My attitude is if the judge doesnt like my pony I dont go under them again. If everyone liked the same it would be a boring old world. Have a good look at yourselves in the particualr field that you show in, you have your likes and dislikes of what you want a pony to be - why should a judge not have their opinions too. It should not even be questioned if you want a cut and dried result go showjumping.
After saying all that I hate facey judging and the producers who make a point of letting the judge know which one is their pony - there is no excuse for that.
I think that the judge who came on here needs applauding it took some guts to be publicly slagged off and reply to her critics who I think have been very unjust
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Post by ponies4me on Jun 7, 2007 10:49:42 GMT
i think that anyone who is seen to be letting the judge know it is there pony going into the ring should be slung out. what are stewards there for after all?
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Post by Guestless on Jun 7, 2007 11:40:30 GMT
i think that anyone who is seen to be letting the judge know it is there pony going into the ring should be slung out. what are stewards there for after all? I agree something should be done, but I don't think a steward has the authority to ask anyone to leave the ring. Such requests would have to be made by the judge.
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Post by Stewards on Jun 7, 2007 15:15:55 GMT
A steward slung me out of a class once because the judge said that she has seen my pony around before is that fair? it wasnt to me imo. i didnt know the judge and the judge didnt ask to chuck me out it was the steward i have hated him since hehe. And as to this Mrs Brown thing all i can say is that i didnt see her judging therefore did not know what it was like. But my view on judging is if a judge likes a pony i dont than fair enough its when bad judging comes in i have a problem. Like when one that wrong legs it twice wins the class. Why cant people just leave it now and no-one say ANYTHING else. See if you can do that not even reply to this coment. (apart from the top bit. Can you do it?
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Post by bothered on Jun 7, 2007 16:01:07 GMT
If the pony wins it wins and there aint nout you can do about it! So why bother bit*hing - it won and that's that If you don't like it lump it
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Post by thats me on Jun 7, 2007 17:09:45 GMT
Thats what i said hehe
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Post by faberge on Jun 8, 2007 10:35:00 GMT
It is a fact of life, that in the showing world a very small minority of judges are somewhat facey. But as previously stated, you pay your money and you take your chance, if you don't like it........don't do it, it is as simple as that!
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Post by there you go on Jun 8, 2007 11:21:59 GMT
I take it that you cant just leave it then then the show is nearly a week ago now and you still going on. Just give it a rest. whats done is done
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Post by sunshine90210 on Jun 9, 2007 8:07:48 GMT
I have to say that i thought the Olympia judging was very fair, even though personally i'm not too keen on Vicky Hesfords connie, i just feel that it's too arab like. But i felt all of the sections were judges fair as naughty ponies were dropped. And aparently Vicky Hesford is producing it this year.
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gh
Full Member
Posts: 493
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Post by gh on Jun 9, 2007 18:54:45 GMT
Tried anonimity eh? Site too quiet? that must surely prove that most who post stuff are disaffected whingers and losers being given license to say anything they like without any redress. I'll prove a point once and for all, next time I see a judge put a pony 'up' that wrong legs it on their individual show I will say so on this site. I expect they might well say "that's not the only criteria for my choiceof winner" so you have to take it.
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judge
Junior Member
Posts: 154
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Post by judge on Jun 9, 2007 19:02:36 GMT
When competitors are happy with the judging the thread only lasts a short while. Mrs Bown coming on here with justification of her judging seems to have made this thread last for ever. Draw your own conclusions.
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Post by Admin on Jun 9, 2007 19:32:43 GMT
I don’t see it as Mrs. Bowen is trying to justify her actions or decisions. The fact that Mrs. Bowen is prepared to stand by her own convictions speaks volumes to me. By all means debate the days events but Mrs. Bowen has said her piece and at the end of the day the choice lays with her and her alone. Unfortunately there are those out there that do make dubious decisions. I would be more inclined to welcome those sorts to comment on the end results.
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Post by tinga on Jun 9, 2007 21:22:10 GMT
Well done, Mrs Bown, for the comments. A truly fair unbiased knowledgable experienced judge. Totally agree with the overbent bit - I think it's a worrying trend too, and it really makes you appreciate the native ponies which don't. I know there are some ponies which overbend as an evasion, but I think there are an awful lot being schooled like that. IMO it spoils the whole picture, and I hate seeing shortened necks and heads in a position beyond the vertical.
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Post by Softee on Jun 11, 2007 7:33:16 GMT
Well said Mrs Bown and Tinga. Fair judging through and through.
The problem appears to be that too many people - especially those who use this site - have come to think it is an annual right for them to qualify for HOYS/Olympia. When others achieve their dream then they become targets to be "slagged off".
Many compete and enjoy the thrill of achieving a rosette with tickets being seen as a bonus. Long may these competitors be encouraged to chase their dream and eventually achieve it. They are the people every show committee wish to encourage for without entries and fair judges showing will lose out.
The sordid comment regarding judges, competitors and ponies should be seen in their true light as pure jealousy. Jealousy is at the root of all spitefulness.
Agree judges need to mark overbent ponies down and also those over moving for their breed type. So many ponies of all types from natives to BSPS Intermediates are over trotted compared to adult/horse class exhibits.
Maybe it is also time for the NPS/BSPS/HOYS to return to the bitting discussions and limit the types of bit used in Olympia/HOYS classes. Very severe bits are becoming more and more common place and the sad thing is ponies wearing these are qualifying. This is not encouraging good hands, properly schooled ponies and is a quick fix solution to achieving the required outline.
Perhaps judging seminars should educate judges and exhibitors in the use of various bits and how they work? It would be interesting for someone at the Championship Shows to collate the types of bit in use in the major qualifiers and publish the results.
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Post by Guestless on Jun 11, 2007 10:10:54 GMT
Shame you're not a member Softee, as I think your post would have resulted in several positive karma!
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Post by which bit on Jun 11, 2007 10:20:42 GMT
so what do you class as a severe bit??
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Stonefold Ponies NLI
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Post by Stonefold Ponies NLI on Jun 11, 2007 10:58:08 GMT
:oI have been on here twice before to defend Mrs Bown and her judging. I have been her steward aon two occasions at different shows throughout the last few years and I can tell you first hand that she is a fair and extremely knowledgeable judge, and I think she has as much right to come on here and defend herself against the win no matter what brigade, who often give their opinions so freely, and sometimes the nasty jelous comments can take away the joy of winnig such a prestigeous qualifer, which is sad. Good luck to that lovely Connemara pony who looks really well and who is ridden so well it makes me sick with jelousy (as it probably will a few others) LOL!!. Good luck at the final.
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