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Post by judith on Jul 26, 2008 20:26:29 GMT
I agree with Firths there were two in the line up wrong leg it i think they were sixth and eigth both lovely ponies though.
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Post by hobsonschoice on Jul 26, 2008 20:38:23 GMT
Judith, glad to see you have calmed down a bit.... let's be clear here - you said " Very strong class few wrong legs were placed but lovely ponies". They were lovely ponies, but in a class of this level and prestige surely there should be no wrong legs. I see no point in naming and shaming as you suggest but surely you understand the point? I too agree with Firths - I thought her pony was fantastic and so were many others who were not placed and did a foot perfect show. The commentary from the spectators on the sideline was consistent - why are ponies who went on the wrong leg being placed ?? Do YOU actually think that ponies on the wrong leg should be placed??
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Post by firths on Jul 26, 2008 20:52:24 GMT
Thank you Judith, but I do agree with Hobson's Choice - no ponies pulled forward should have gone on the wrong leg - we have all been there and been dropped from HOYs and Olympia qualifiers for the same mistake. Confirmation judges can always mark down your pony as it is not their type, however I feel the way of going Judge at this level should penalise such errors. Many years ago wrong legs were always put at the back line.
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Post by judith on Jul 26, 2008 21:53:20 GMT
I was not confused at all about either the judges or the wrong legs i havent calmed down at all as i wasnt wound up. I know who wrong legged it as my pony was in the line up. I too agree that there was some lovely ponies who did good shows with correct leads who didnt get placed. We have had wrong legs and never placed on one but that is showing for you.
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Post by judith on Jul 26, 2008 22:01:25 GMT
Hobsonschoice do you know who was judging. Was the ride judge not female. If so then how can i be confused. So be it.
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Post by ferret on Jul 26, 2008 22:09:53 GMT
watched the connies and i must say that although the pony that won went lovely and was a lovely lovely pony ...i thought the class itself was quite poor for such a prestigous title up for grabs ...only 15 forward out of 23/24 entered i have seen much stronger classes in some of the HOYS quals this year
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Post by ferret on Jul 26, 2008 22:11:19 GMT
a big well done to Sarah Challinor and Rebels Flight for winning the over 138cm M and M workers yesterday
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Post by giddyupp on Jul 26, 2008 23:30:14 GMT
I can understand where people are coming from as its frustrating when ponies/horses wrong leg ect and are placed . However, in all fairness the ring was awful , from a spectators view it didn’t look that bad but when riding in the ring it was very uneven and downhill , and then the ova half of the ring was up hill . especially when changing the rein and hitting the corner to canter it caught many ponies out (people must remember ponies are animals and not machines , so its only natural for them to take the wrong lead when the ground is so uneven as many of them did ) the judge has obviously taken the condition of the ring into consideration when judging. Many judges look for different qualities when horses are doing there shows, so the horses/ponies that were placed must have had other qualities that she considered more important . I know many people have been arguing that there was many horses that went on the right leg , but at the same time the judge may pick other faults they dislike about the animal that they consider more of a default then a wrong leg , yes many people wont agree as it’s a ridden class but obviously the judge doesn’t hold the same opinion . Theirs many judges that over looks wrong legs. I’m not saying its correct , but I’m just stating that different judges have different views and are looking for different qualities in a ridden animal, if every judge was the same then it just wouldn’t be showing
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Post by judith on Jul 27, 2008 7:02:25 GMT
Very well said giddyup.
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Post by ickelford on Jul 27, 2008 7:38:39 GMT
Have just seen the mark sheet posted on another thread for the M&M large breeds...and WOW what a way to not use your marks!?! That unbelievable, I was watching and cannot believe that ponies who went foot perfect were given the same (if not less) than those who didn't. I agree with you giddyup re the ground, that river lawn is notoriously awful, but its still not fair on those competitors who found a way to ensure their ponies were balanced and going correctly. I'm not saying that a wrong leg (particuarly one that is quickly corrected) is the be-all-and-end-all, but there were some that were top 6 (particularly in the large breeds...although the strongest and largest class) who had clearly gone on the wrong leg...one for almost the entire first loop of its show as they couldn't stop (and I'm not naming names). I realise it is 50/50 but for a judge who had such variation in shows presented to her, from the foot-perfect to rather below average, to only use a variation of 4 or 5 marks is unbelievable. It seems the conformation marks decided that class.
I also agree with ferret about the connemara/NF class, I dont want to take anything away from the winner but only 15 forward and didn't really look like the RIHS final! Also unfair on the other 10 or 15 who didn't turn up - I'm sure whoever came 2nd to them at the qualifiers would've gladly taken their place! Perhaps those competitors knew something the others didn't...but anyway, congratulations to all those who were placed.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jul 27, 2008 9:58:29 GMT
I wasn't there so didn't see the class, but commenting on what was said above about the ground - whatever it was like it was the same for everyone so why shouldn't those who coped with it and got the right legs not be given more credit than those who didn't and wrong legged it? A different situation surely to say an umbrella being opened at the wrong moment for one pony and causing a spook which could be treated more leniently?
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Post by hmmm on Jul 27, 2008 11:38:26 GMT
Some of the horses/ponies in question that wronged legged and were placed , went actually fooot perfect , bar the few strides of wrong leads ( yes some did more then a few strides , but for many of the "wrong leggers" the jokeys quickly altered there mistake quickly ) yes , other horses/ponies went on the right leg , however they might of been lacking some sparkly or quality in other areas (such as movement head carriage , quality ect.) So the animals that wrong legged must of been offering more to the judges taste then some of the other animals in the ring. Maybe the judge did take some marks away for wrong legs but penilised other animals in another area . At the end of the day its quite clear to see that the judge wasnt fazed by a wrong leg , whether this is right or wrong the judges dicision is final (and if u dnt like it the make a little note of this judge and remember not to go under her again) In all the classes there was very quality lovely animals in the final line up , (there was no extremely miss behavied animals being placed, so maybe the animals that went "foot perfect" wernt to the judges taste.
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Post by jinja on Jul 27, 2008 16:58:34 GMT
just got back from RIHS and I only watched our class and thought the show judge was terrible how on gods earth can a judge give a pony that wrong leggs it a higher mark than one that does a beautiful show taking nothing away from MAI as she was a wothy winner and looked fantastic congrats to all concerned but there were several poonies in that line up that should NOT have been placed, IMO a total disgrace and sadly judges like Mrs Rees spoil showing for the majority of us
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Post by fjudge on Jul 27, 2008 18:21:44 GMT
A massive well done to Katy Payne and Taffy (Brimstone the Prospector). Your round in the 138cm M&M WHP class was foot perfect and you totally deserved the win. Also well done to the few clears in the M&M workers and to everyone else. The weather was lovely and had a fun couple of days
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Post by YourAllNuts on Jul 27, 2008 19:23:24 GMT
Jinja, what pony are you referring too! as you clearly are referring to one in particular, when in fact a total of 4 ponies wrong legged it in the final line up of the Large Breeds!!! Personally speaking i thought the final line up of the large breed class, which I also personally watched, was a fantastic line up of superb ponies, whether they wrong legged it or not!! ! I have never known such bit*hing and back biting, you all go up and congratulate people on the day, rush home, and then begin the back stabbing. I didnt realise you are all such experts, Personally I think maybe some of you need to give up showing and take up a sport which will teach you all the art of "good sportsmanship" It wasnt long ago that I read a thread on here with reference to a c ertain D qualifying for HOYS on a wrong leg, so what, it was obviously an excellent example of its breed, and probably went very well apart from the wrong leg, why persecute c ertain people and their ponies, I just hope one day it isnt YOU on the receiving end of this appalling behaviour!!!!!!!!!!!! Apologies Rant Over!!
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Post by clobo121082 on Jul 27, 2008 19:29:09 GMT
I have to just say not getting into the wrong leg right leg debate etc but what i just found astonding was that the marks were so the same, regardless to whether she didn't mind wrong legs surely other parts of the shows would provide a difference of at least 6/7 marks between top and bottom. Marks are there to be used. In the hairy class there were a couple of shows i felt deserved 47ish marks whilst others easily only 26ish and yet they were just so similair. I have to say i thought from the classes i saw they were all worthy winners, and Mae very much a worthy champion was just a shame at that level so many ended up on equal marks and i felt sorry for all the competitors who had made the effort (time and money) and got awarded all the same marks. Well done to Mai and team in the supreme today, mum said she thought you were hard done by but she looked and went fab.
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Post by shelleyj on Jul 27, 2008 19:32:22 GMT
just wondering whether wrong legs are routinely penalised in other ridden sections eg riding horse, hunters, hacks etc
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Post by ohdearohdear on Jul 27, 2008 19:42:00 GMT
I watched the large breed class and belived that every single pony in that line up was stunning! whether it wrong legged or not , none of the horses did awful shows. You seem to have a big problem with one horse, would like to know which ? however , i think all that were placed deserved it . God the horsey world is VICIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by shelleyj on Jul 27, 2008 19:43:24 GMT
mine was a genuine question ohdearohdear!
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Post by jinja on Jul 27, 2008 20:02:18 GMT
sorry to mislead anyone I did not mean any one pony just a pony in general, my pony went foot perfect and several did wrong legs and 4 of those were placed which i was annoyed about. All the ponies placed were lovely ponies and I do not have a problem standing down to any of those ponies if they had gone well, BUT some went badly in an adult class at the RIHS I do not feel that is right. Lastly I certainly did NOT go over and say well done and then come on here back stabbing. The ponies and their riders were not in any way to blame I just feel the show judge was at fault and I am certainly not the only one who feels this way.
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Post by bella on Jul 27, 2008 20:16:18 GMT
Well said Jinja - I cannot believe all these people condoning the high placings of ponies who go on the wrong leg at such a prestigious show, when the majority of ponies in the class are fine examples of their breed. Perhaps these people do not spend many hours schooling their ponies to go correctly in a ridden class and I am sure most of us would be embarrassed if we were highly placed at a championship and felt our pony did not go as well as it should have done. Obviously, it is the judges who are at fault. Some general rules should be laid down that certain points are deducted for errors in shows - as has been mentioned before. This is happening far too often nowadays and I feel something just has to be done about it.
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Post by ohdearohdear on Jul 27, 2008 21:02:29 GMT
Im sorry Bella but i dont agree with you to say "Perhaps these people do not spend many hours schooling their ponies to go correctly in a ridden class" is very unfair comment as im sure the ponies jokeys that wrong legged in the final line up have put in soo much work and hard work schooling to even get there. Plus how can you say "most of us would be embarrassed if we were highly placed" Why should these jokeys feel embarassed , at the end of the day they didnt place them selfs there and they try there best , they must have done something right to be placed!Why do people have to come on here and take everything away from people who do well . If it was your pony wrong legged it and was placed , im sure you wouldnt harp on about how unfair it was . But think of it this way , everyone in the class wouldnt have been penilised for wrong legging as the judge obviously didnt regard it. (right or wrong it doesnt matter , its done and dusted .)
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Post by bella on Jul 27, 2008 21:07:13 GMT
oh yes, I am afraid it does matter to a lot of people and, yes, there are people who would be rather embarrassed to be placed highly if they didn't consider they deserved it, even though it was the fault of the judge.
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dartylover
Junior Member
Dunmere Buff Ermine <3
Posts: 141
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Post by dartylover on Jul 27, 2008 21:18:05 GMT
oh yes, I am afraid it does matter to a lot of people and, yes, there are people who would be rather embarrassed to be placed highly if they didn't consider they deserved it, even though it was the fault of the judge. well said Bella! I think most people would totally agree with you. I also think that something has to be done about this!
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Post by YourAllNuts on Jul 27, 2008 22:14:07 GMT
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issac
Junior Member
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Post by issac on Jul 27, 2008 22:52:14 GMT
when are showing members going to understand that breed type is very important and these ponies are bred for a specific purpose highlands to go up hills carrying stags fells and dales to go up the pennines wrong leg or not but must remain balanced and move to the correct ways they are bred for not to be be show ponies!!!peter boustead is looking for correct type to do the job not a show pony the same with mrs rees
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Post by jinja on Jul 28, 2008 6:49:33 GMT
I can not belive that some people are coming on here and saying that ponies that went on the wrong leg should get placed. I do not think a wrong leg is a terrible thing but it is a mistake and at this level should be penalised enough to stop the pony getting placed. The conformation judge can mark down any ponies that are incorrect for their breed but the show mark is for way of going and ponies should be light in the hand forward going and balanced showing all 4 paces. Mai was a perfect example of how ponies should go. .
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Post by samd on Jul 28, 2008 7:29:37 GMT
I have been following this thread with interest and I cannot believe that some people can think that going on the wrong leg is perfectly ok!! I know that most of the ponies which wrong legged it are just as well schooled as the others but just make a mistake on the day but the judges should penalise them. Issac, what you have got to realise is that these are 'showing classes' so they are 'show ponies' but I agree they should still be good examples of their breed and that is down to the conformation judge. In a class of that quality they have got to sort out the best ponies on performance because it is a ridden class not an in hand class and every pony in the class would be a fine example of their breed. If performance is not going to be taken into account it should just be an in hand class, why bother with a show! I am sure that the people that were placed with a wrong leg would not have expected to be placed, it is the fault of the judge not the competitors.
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Post by shelleyj on Jul 28, 2008 7:37:24 GMT
Every time this is raised people say it is down to type - the ride judge is there to judge show and way of going and the marks should surely reflect that. It is no different to a hack or riding horse or a show cob, all of which are expected to perform (that being the key word for ride) to the highest standard at this level. They are all expected to be outstanding examples of their type too. Mistakes can be made by anybody, ground and rider error as well as pony error being factors, but at this level with the quality available throughout all the RI classes mistakes, however caused, should be penalised. There is no reason at all why a native pony should not be light and balanced to ride, whatever their breed type - a good example being trowan moulin. This lack of rigour is probably why when talking to a friend last week the bhs are totally uninterested in her showing acheivements when it comes to her doing her I - they are interested in her dressage and jumping background. I find that a bit sad.
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Post by refifsneke on Jul 28, 2008 8:14:36 GMT
Thank you all for your comments about Mai - I wasn't expecting anything like the results we got, especially as I have never been under Peter Boustead or Mrs Rees before. I also agree that at the RIHS that wrong legs should be penalised as it is unfair for ponies to be beaten by others who make mistakes, however quickly they are corrected. I couldn't believe when looking at the marks that the top three ponies were on joint marks - that must be a first! Mai went fantastically in the Supreme Pony Championship and I hope anyone else who watched her thought she was a good ambassador for M & M's as this was the first year they were eligible for this championship. We were amazed at Mrs Le Moigahan (sp) giving the first pony to go a 10 out of 10 as how could anything else beat it? She then waited for her co-judges to post their marks before putting hers up for the remaining ponies which we also thought was very unfair as basically she decided the championship on her own. We thought Mai was hard done by as she produced a foot perfect performance and her show wasn't just a normal run of the mill show like the others. Having said that, I am certainly not unhappy to be 3rd in such a championship but just thought that the judges should have posted their marks together, not waiting to see what the others put up! Thanks to everyone at Team Harvey for their support and help - we certainly made enough noise on the day!!
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