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Post by princess on Nov 13, 2006 22:56:32 GMT
Makes perfect sense to me!
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Post by 4fun on Nov 14, 2006 7:25:30 GMT
I am sorry but if a child needs to hold the front of the saddle to feel safe and prevent them from falling off then they aren't ready for the show ring.
What really makes me laugh is those jockeys who hold the saddle in the lead rein class and then go into the first ridden class straight after....what's that about?
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Post by sallyw on Nov 14, 2006 8:07:20 GMT
What if the child loves riding and showing and WANTS to ride in the ring but gets slightly nervous on the big occasion and feels more secure holding the saddle. I know that I used to hunt a very big and strong horse waering a matingale so that I could hold onto the neck strap when things got hairy. I have been riding over fifty years - are you saying that I should not go hunting?
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Post by BouncyBouncy on Nov 14, 2006 8:55:26 GMT
What if the child loves riding and showing and WANTS to ride in the ring but gets slightly nervous on the big occasion and feels more secure holding the saddle. I know that I used to hunt a very big and strong horse waering a matingale so that I could hold onto the neck strap when things got hairy. I have been riding over fifty years - are you saying that I should not go hunting? Fetherston with all respect what you have described are two totally different things. When you were out hunting and had a neckstrap incase things got a bit hairy, if you used it did you let go of your reins and have someone leading you? I don't think that is what you meant at all. There are kids going in lead rein classes who hold the saddle for the whole class, (I've seen some that haven't held the reins at all during the class) These kids don't ride in any way, shape or form they are merely plonked on a pony and are holding on for dear life. When you see the same child like this from one year to the next it beggars belief, they obviously do not learn to ride or practice at home, it doesn't take a year or more to learn to rise to the trot. Another thing I have seen, is the handler holding the childs outside leg, in effect holding them on in the ring. Why are people taking children in the ring that aren't ready for it? They are surely just glory hunters and have little thought for the child. Often it doesn't take much for a child to get scared or put off, so people should stop taking them in the ring before they are ready, they should practice and get the children lessons at home.
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Post by dillis on Nov 14, 2006 8:56:07 GMT
Well said Hackety couldn't agree with you more, it is the judges place to judge what they see before them on the day, the 6 hours working in by an adult is irrelevant to the judge and how they judge the specimen before them in the class, hence why beautiful, well turned out, mannerly (when it counts) ponies win prizes
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Post by BouncyBouncy on Nov 14, 2006 9:11:45 GMT
Another thing, check out the kids who are tied to the saddle very discreetly with a piece a string just above their ankles under their jodhpurs which is attached to the leathers or irons. This can be done so it's not visible and apparently helps stops kids sliding off round corners. The consequences of this don't bear thinking about if the child needs to make a hasty exit.
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Post by princess on Nov 14, 2006 9:32:48 GMT
OMG can't believe that happens to be honest!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by prudence on Nov 14, 2006 9:32:55 GMT
Children dont always hold on the saddle to stop themselves falling off they hold on because they have not got nice steady hands, otherwize they will pull and snatch at the ponies mouth with every up down that they do, my son only let go of the saddle when his hands were good enough to hold the reins without causing discomfort for the pony he practised at home on a slightly longer rein if he had done that in the ring the pony would have poked her nose, and before anyone starts our pony was never tied up or worked in any form of torture she was worked on the lunge in drawreins to keep her balanced and very occasionally my daughter would school her. I think the easiest way to ruin a good pony is to have a novice rider continually banging about on their back and snatching them in the mouth as all beginners do. The pony has to be treated with respect.
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Post by howtogo on Nov 14, 2006 9:41:27 GMT
This has proved a very interesting disscussion! I always find lr classes one of the hardest to be in and i guess it just comes down to knowing your judges. What I find difficult is to judge the different ways ponies go. Some judges seem to like them sitting up and going on, on the boil i suppose i wld call it whilst others seem to like the more pokey nosed, not so tied in ponies? How does everyone on here like to see there ponies go? I also have to say i agree with hackety an dillis that unfortunately judges can only judge what is there. Of course as a parent you would want a pony that is safe for your child but unfortunately judgs don't know that pony a has been lunged for hours before the child is on. I remember when i was younger lunging a very well known lr for around 4 hours straight - it won everything though. Is this a true lr no, but in the ring after the work it is!!
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Post by Guestless on Nov 14, 2006 10:14:30 GMT
I think it is only fair to judge those in a LR class equally - as others have said, you can't make a judgement as to when a child started riding and it wouldn't be fair to discriminate against an older child as he/she is equally entitled to be in the class as long as they are within the eligible age range. I don't mind a child holding on to the saddle for trot, particularly if it means the pony isn't jabbed in the mouth. I don't however think it is appropriate for a child to hold on to the saddle for the whole class as that just proves they are only a passenger which I just don't think is appropriate. How do you know the pony is a suitable lead rein pony if it is not being ridden
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Post by lr fan on Nov 14, 2006 10:36:12 GMT
Guestless,please tell me how many lr ponies have you had? i suspect none, so please do not try to teach your granny how to suck eggs, the lr class is NOT a best rider class, we were once put down as my boy did not quite havr his up,downs to a very naughty lr pony whos child could do up downs, the judge actuctually told us why we had been dropped as my son did not ride very well so please guestless do not preach about a class you have no experience in, i will always let them hold on ifn fact bring back the little leather strap we used to have, rather have holding on than short reins just my humble view
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Post by Sammie on Nov 14, 2006 10:39:25 GMT
Well said LR fan!!
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on Nov 14, 2006 10:47:22 GMT
Ok My LR jockie is 6 but still very novice. He does hold lightly on to the saddle in trot. We do not have shorten or knotted reins Nor anything tied his legs liked mechiand. The ponies is also NEVER worked in by adult or older child (and No wilkie)
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Post by 4fun on Nov 14, 2006 11:34:30 GMT
I still don't think allowing a child to hold the saddle is acceptable in the show ring. From the photo you can see by holding the saddle this doesn't help the child adopt a balanced position.
At 6 your son can get away with holding on but I would strongly advise you to start teaching him to ride if he has any ambitions to progress onto first ridden.
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Post by Guestless on Nov 14, 2006 11:37:43 GMT
the lr class is NOT a best rider class, we were once put down as my boy did not quite havr his up,downs to a very naughty lr pony whos child could do up downs, the judge actuctually told us why we had been dropped as my son did not ride very well so please guestless do not preach about a class you have no experience in, i will always let them hold on ifn fact bring back the little leather strap we used to have, rather have holding on than short reins just my humble view Just where did I say it was a best rider class? I would certainly not put a naughty pony above one where the rider couldn't do rising trot. I still stand by I disagreeertion though that it is not all about the pony. I am not preaching, but I am entitled to have my say just as much as the next person. I've already said I don't mind them holding on so don't try to twist my words either. There are lots of people agreeing that they prefer a child not to be holding on to the saddle for the whole class so I'm not on my own in my preference. We are trying to keep this non-confrontational but obviously this is too difficult for some people!
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Post by Cherrytop & Spicery Stud on Nov 14, 2006 11:51:02 GMT
I still don't think allowing a child to hold the saddle is acceptable in the show ring. From the photo you can see by holding the saddle this doesn't help the child adopt a balanced position. At 6 your son can get away with holding on but I would strongly advise you to start teaching him to ride if he has any ambitions to progress onto first ridden. We as it was in the Evening Performace (his 1st) I was happy for him to do so! He is not my son!!! He is Riding on his own merits at the moment. He is comming out into First Year 1st riddens Next year.
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Post by ponygirl on Nov 14, 2006 13:15:18 GMT
I still don't think allowing a child to hold the saddle is acceptable in the show ring. From the photo you can see by holding the saddle this doesn't help the child adopt a balanced position. At 6 your son can get away with holding on but I would strongly advise you to start teaching him to ride if he has any ambitions to progress onto first ridden. I have to say that many moons ago when I worked on a yard - no beginner - adult or child was let off the lunge until they could rise to the trot and ride independantly of their hands. This meant lots of exercises in walk and then sitting trot - with hands on hips, top of head etc and then moving on to riding trot with hands on knees, hips, head etc. They then came off the lunge and learnt steering, first in walk and then trot and then basic shapes, 20 metre cirles, figure of eights etc before they joined a group lesson. Unfortunately now there is too much of a hurry to move on before the basics have been learnt. I used to teach 4 and 5 year olds and they were able to ride in groups without issue on a really good/safe schoolmaster as long as the basics had been established on the lunge first. As for CTS jockey - the evening perforamance at PUK can be a bit scary with all that cheering so I say better safe than sorry for holding on in that instance!!
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Post by Guestless on Nov 14, 2006 14:09:23 GMT
Well said ponygirl - I think people are in too much of a hurry nowadays. I do agree with cts' jockey not taking any chances in the evening performance too - I would hold on to my saddle if I could, lol!
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Post by Work Lurker on Nov 14, 2006 14:14:56 GMT
As long as the child is safe, the pony is happy and all concerned are enjoying themselves does it matter if they hold the saddle? The showring is a pressurised placed for these tiny jockeys and they should ride however they feel the most comfortable.
They will, in time, find their balance and become less dependent on the security of holding the saddle - then they will be nearly ready for FYFR. Personally I would prefer to see a less experienced/balanced little rider holding the saddle and, hopefully, smiling as they battle with their "up downs" (or down ups as I prefer them to be taught...so much easier) than one who looks worried and is using the pony's mouth to balance.
As for the ponies, they are "leading rein ponies" after all and in my opinion should be entirely under the control of the leader (ie politely follow the commands they are given by the leader regardless of how much bumping, giggling etc is happening "on top" - rather than be dominated by the leader!). These are the "prams" of the pony world and should behave accordingly.
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Post by Prudence on Nov 14, 2006 14:45:05 GMT
Well said Worker Lurker
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Post by lr fan on Nov 14, 2006 14:54:12 GMT
Here here work lurker,you sing from the same sheet as i do,except you put it better, as i *judge i would rather see them doing and going as you said guestless you did not say how many lr ponies you have had? and how many of these classes you have judged
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shelly
Junior Member
Posts: 77
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Post by shelly on Nov 14, 2006 16:51:55 GMT
my little girl is only 4 years old and at the moment i encourage her to hold the saddle which she does very reluctantly (She wants to be like her big sister and gallop off into the sunset!) the reason we encourage this is for her safety and our sanity i cant stand to see my angel of a pony being smacked in the mouth every time she does rising trot and also i would like to see her still aboard when ive done my half marathon around the fields !!!!
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Post by BouncyBouncy on Nov 15, 2006 19:21:28 GMT
I don't think anyone should moan about the age of a child in a lead rein class, if they are illegible to be in the class then what is there to argue about.
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Post by lancashire judge on Nov 15, 2006 22:31:49 GMT
I don't think anyone should moan about the age of a child in a lead rein class, if they are illegible to be in the class then what is there to argue about. hear hear.......too much winging and moaning on this subject......
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Post by sallyw on Nov 16, 2006 8:48:21 GMT
Isn't it interesting how much comment the leaad rein classes excite. Is this because the parents have in some cases paid extortionate amounts of money for the pony and are then dsperate to justify this?? We had our pony free with another one - and for the record qualified for Winter Champs first time out - so it can be done without loads of cash - and certainly without tying the rider's legs to the girth with has to be the height of dangerous practise. Is any rosette worth putting a child in such danger?
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Post by Prudence on Nov 16, 2006 18:47:35 GMT
Featherson Do you know of any child that has ever been tied to the saddle i have never heard such rubbish, the judges are not blind and i really dont think anyone would put their childrens life in danger for the sake of a rossette, and as for the price of the pony what has that got to do with anything people only pay good money for good ponies and i think the safest ponies bring the highest prices what price do you put on a childs safety.
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Post by tustus on Nov 16, 2006 20:33:03 GMT
Surely tying the stirrups to the girth would be much safer and as effective as tying the rider to the saddle
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Post by sallyw on Nov 17, 2006 8:42:41 GMT
I was not saying that I had seen children tied to the saddle BUT commenting on something which was being said on the previous page. I have to completely disagree that the highest prices are paid for the safest ponies. There will always be the pony that wins a great deal because they are produced by a professional who really knows their stuff. That pony then goes to an less good producer to to a family to be home produced and it is difficult to replicate those good results. There is also the pony who is purchased cheaply (or in the case of one of mine, comes free with another) and goes on to win. I am sure that in my case the fact that this pony was free and has always been completely safe makes me not bothered so much if I am first or last. I saw a pony which I know changed hands recently for a great deal of money get beaten last week. It was taken round the back of the lorries and thrashed. The child was screamed at for at least ten minutes. We got beaten too and we went back to the lorry, cuddled the pony and all had a hot chocolate. There is always another day - we've qualified anyway and we want to enjoy our showing. Lets remember what we and our children are doing it for!
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Post by prudence on Nov 17, 2006 9:03:39 GMT
I still think a lot of the ponies that bring good money are safe there are always exeptions to the rule but surley parents do their homework before buying a LR or FR pony both my LR and FR were checked out from the start of their career until the day i paid for them and both ponies have been fantastic ponies the LR went on to do the same for another family and the FR due to health problems will stay with us forever and at present hes teaching a 5 year old to canter off the lead and i bought him with his problems because of how safe he is and yes i paid good money as he was a HOYS pony. Hopefully he will start teaching my grandson when the time comes he is a true childs pony.
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Post by princess on Nov 17, 2006 9:51:16 GMT
I don't think it matters what price you put on a lr pony, yes buy an expensive pony which is safe with a proven record if you can afford it! Or buy a complete unknown youngster again as long as its safe etc.......... it really doesn't matter. My pony cost peanuts as a 3yr old easy to back and after her first year was placed highly at puk in all her LR classes and even won an open championship class! Before her we had a LR pony that was an experienced schoolmistress which we paid a decent amount for and she did well. Circumstances often affect the ponies that we buy and the cost! My desisions have been based purely around my daughter because I wanted an experienced pony to take her into lr as a 3yr old! As for thrashing a pony that doesn't win whether it cost nothing or 10K is just cruelty and totally uncalled for, they are not machines!
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