Milliesmum
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COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on Jul 13, 2009 10:32:56 GMT
If you click on the 'administration' tab at the top of the JMB page, it explains.
27ii is failure to re-present within the 21 days.
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Post by ernie on Jul 13, 2009 13:04:08 GMT
Rule 27 refers to Invalid Certificates. There are 5 listed reasons why the Rule might come into play. As said above, in this instance, it will presumably be the fact that the animal/s has/have not been presented for re-measurement by the owner in the time specified - ie: 21 days after the JMB Office notified the owner. All the Rules are in the JMB Rule Book and on the website for all of us to read. (modified to correct typo). In some cases it is not that the owners have not presented their animals but the JMB's failure to remeasure these ponies within the 21 days. They have chosen to recall so many ponies at the same time they can't physically get through them within the 21 day limit and I can only presume the situation will get worse when they recall the next batch. |
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Post by wednesday on Jul 13, 2009 14:26:34 GMT
Rule 27 refers to Invalid Certificates. There are 5 listed reasons why the Rule might come into play. As said above, in this instance, it will presumably be the fact that the animal/s has/have not been presented for re-measurement by the owner in the time specified - ie: 21 days after the JMB Office notified the owner. All the Rules are in the JMB Rule Book and on the website for all of us to read. (modified to correct typo). In some cases it is not that the owners have not presented their animals but the JMB's failure to remeasure these ponies within the 21 days. They have chosen to recall so many ponies at the same time they can't physically get through them within the 21 day limit and I can only presume the situation will get worse when they recall the next batch. IS THERE GOING TO BE ANOTHER BATCH? |
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Post by masters on Jul 13, 2009 15:29:53 GMT
It'll be interesting to see who measures in for HOYS this year, especially the M&M's. (Section C's)
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Post by bemused on Jul 13, 2009 15:57:27 GMT
I believe that there is going to be another batch.
Rule 27 can also apply, I am told, if your cheque bounces!
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Post by ernie on Jul 13, 2009 16:55:02 GMT
I believe that there is going to be another batch. Rule 27 can also apply, I am told, if your cheque bounces! Rule 27 (i) is if you are in debt to the JMB and Rule 27 (ii) is the 21 day. The BSPS have said that all the ponies/horses will be remeasured and the h&h reported that there were 70? ponies/horses so it is likely that they will be recalled too. |
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Post by blogger on Jul 13, 2009 17:32:29 GMT
There are a few horse/ponies which stay invalid under Rule 27 (i) - I wonder if some people cancel their cheques if they haven't got the height they wanted?
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Post by Scottie on Jul 13, 2009 18:23:20 GMT
I do think if you want to object to your own horse because you think it is over height it should not cost you £600.
If you cheated and showed it in the class you feel it is too big for and someone else objected it would save you £600 but you would be cheating.
It should not cost you so much to do the right thing!
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Post by lizzie2 on Jul 13, 2009 19:01:26 GMT
Just had a look at the jmb and it seems to have been updated since the last time i looked. It seems that the classes at the international are going to be a whole lot smaller now. it is a bit of a shame because there is some lovely ponies in that list but if they are too big then they shouldn't be in the classes anyway. i am sure that even if these ponies had been taken for measurement even if they were measured out they would still do well in the next class up just obviously too late to do RI now though.
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Post by ponymadmum on Jul 13, 2009 19:11:41 GMT
some ponies have measured out by quite a lot!! shame for the ponies in the qualifying classes that were beaten by the remeasured ponies that have measured out.
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Post by flicker on Jul 13, 2009 20:43:25 GMT
it is quite unfair that hey have put all the pending in as 27ii as jmb are the ones giving the date out to be remeasured! why not leave it pending as i know quite a few going on 15th and 22nd july all booked by jmb
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Post by sageandonion on Jul 13, 2009 20:45:39 GMT
How many ponies who went to the Essex vets have measured in/out? Just wondering if the noise made about him was justified or whether he was not guilty as charged.
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Post by jmbsec on Jul 13, 2009 22:21:12 GMT
The certificates declared invalid under rule 27.(ii) are in that category for the following reasons;
(a) no response whatsoever within 21 days
(b) a response so near the 21 day limit that a re-m could not be organised before the end of the period
(c) a response with so many dates in the 21 day period that the owner could not produce the animal for re-m that it could not be organised within the period.
(d) a mixture of (b) and (c)
(e) owner cancels re-m and a re-m cannot be re-organised before the end of the 21 day limit
Rule 45.2 states that the full cooperation of the owner is required. Full cooperation is taken to mean just that - to be given a choice of day and usually time is a bonus.
One can only guess why any owner would want to delay/hinder the process.
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Post by sageandonion on Jul 14, 2009 7:51:52 GMT
I guess some people work and have to give proper notice of a request for a day's holday, have children to organise, elderly relatives, no transport or lorry out of action, sick kids, sick self, swine flu. Yes I guess there are lots of reasons people have to cancel.
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on Jul 14, 2009 8:06:56 GMT
I have to say, for anyone with children this is a ridiculously busy time of year! In the next week and a half, I have 2 school productions to see, two new teachers to meet, a leavers assembly, a leavers disco, a promised cinema visit, and two separate sports days! Oh, and a mum's night out (hallelujah!!!!) I'm trying to organise getting my dog to the vet and it's a nightmare finding an appointment that doesn't clash with anything. And my vet is ten minutes away!
Edited to add - and I don't have any showing commitments!
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hacks
Junior Member
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Post by hacks on Jul 14, 2009 8:43:36 GMT
I wonder if there will be any hacks and riding horses recalled?
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Post by titch on Jul 14, 2009 8:48:59 GMT
It says Keeken Renegades certficate is invalid??? Does that mean he was not re-measured??
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jul 14, 2009 9:03:26 GMT
I think you will find alot of the peoples horses have gone up as invalid are those who are still actually 'pending' I agree with milliesmum it is a ridiculously busy time of year and the jmb don't seem take into account that 'normal' people have jobs they have to get time off work from especially if you have to travel 100 miles to get remeasured - what happened to them wanting us all to use our local pads, talk about hypocritical!!! Whoa, lets slow down a bit here!! I think you will find that it's only certain animals which have been asked to be presented for re-measurement, not the whole of the country's! The JMB's regulation is three weeks, not three days. If you transgress with - say - a traffic speeding offence, I think I am right in saying you have 7 days in which to present your documents at the police station. So, three weeks is two whole weeks longer. On looking at the list on the JMB Website, it seems that the majority of these animals would/could be presented by 'professionals', so the 'normal' person would be paying said 'professional' to take the animal, just as they did when they/it was measured in the spring........... |
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Post by jmbsec on Jul 14, 2009 9:44:26 GMT
"100 miles to get remeasured - what happened to them wanting us all to use our local pads, talk about hypocritical!!! "
What animal(s) are you referring to?
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Post by sageandonion on Jul 14, 2009 10:18:20 GMT
Three weeks is not a long time at all. I am a lady of leisure without any children and my own transport and no particular commitments. I would not have made the past three weeks and as I understand it you are only given certain appointments in the three weeks so you don't have 21 days to choose from.
This is not exactly an offence in Law so cannot be compared to presenting yourself at the Police Station and even then you go to the Plod Shop up the road.
Now we are coming up to the school holidays and many people will be off for a fortnight with their bucket and spade.
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Post by masters on Jul 14, 2009 10:19:30 GMT
I'm with 'wornthetshirt', you have 21 days!!!! I wonder how many of these called for re-measurement are genuine so use the excuse of not having time!!!
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Post by parryshowteam on Jul 14, 2009 10:28:14 GMT
we have been offered 1 appointment within the 21 days and unfortunately had to cancel this as we are at Great - Yorkshire Show, as have lost enough showing entry money recently. we have been told we will not be allocated with another appointment and will have to pay the £600 to be remeasured, we are not produced and do everything from home, we both have full time jobs and 3 children with school, sports days, discos and end of year plays and trips and the youngest also has chicken pots. Unfortunately there is no option for us and we will just have to get him remeasured when we can afford the £600 fee
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Post by 4emms on Jul 14, 2009 10:57:19 GMT
Gosh, all this is so disconcerting.
I always thought that by four year old there wouldn't be much height growth unless the pony had previously been neglected, so my current home measure of little pony is academic. not that we would ever be showing at a level to demand formal measuring. LOL
I would like to comment that I feel the issue of excessive height is a consequence of showing winners being considered only to be good enough if they reach the top of the class limit. Just like the penchant for topping off/condition which can sometimes go to extremes, this is risking the whole breeding future, many people wouldn't consider mating two top class 'up to height' ponies in case the resultant offspring went over. Look at humans stats, recent generations are larger overall than 100yrs ago and evidence points to improved nutrition as well as mating healthier/larger specimens. We are in the same situation with ponies.
I am so glad to see the post that Annadale Motivator has won in the next class up because it shows that quality stamp, conformation and performance should be being judged not just size.
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Post by jackiet on Jul 14, 2009 11:09:58 GMT
My daughter was also only offered one date within the 21 days. Trying to accomodate the time off for this one date was impossible, she is working full time for the next 8 weeks, I work full time and her father who is needed to drive the wagon was also unable to take time off. Also the pad we had to take the pony to was over 100 miles away. She had to resort to asking someone else to take the pony on her behalf.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jul 14, 2009 11:25:50 GMT
it is quite unfair that hey have put all the pending in as 27ii as jmb are the ones giving the date out to be remeasured! why not leave it pending as i know quite a few going on 15th and 22nd july all booked by jmb Flicker, you seem very informed - how come you know about those dates then?? |
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Post by Guestless on Jul 14, 2009 11:33:18 GMT
Must say I think being offered only one date within 21 days could make it very difficult for some people.  There are times at my workplace when I cannot take time off and therefore could not produce my pony for being measured at an allocated time. I don't have a problem with remeasures having to go to a certain measuring pad (so long as it's not 100 miles away as asserted on here  ) but if I was only offered 1 date to attend, then I could find it very difficult if not impossible |
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jul 14, 2009 11:44:03 GMT
I think you will find that the JMB do try to keep the travelling to a minimum.
Regarding these re-measurements, seemingly many of the animals had to travel considerable distances in the first instance to get the fraudulent measurement, when there were perfectly usable pads much nearer to their yards.
Obviously, that must trigger warning bells. No-one wants to see animals travelled unneccesarily.
Only a few days ago (on another thread), one poster refered to her pony having been shown for around "40 weekends a year". Now, that IS verging on a welfare issue.
At least, going to a Measuring pad and back, the animal is not being subjected to hanging around or standing on the vehicle for hours on end, waiting, for example, for another class or championship......
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Post by sageandonion on Jul 14, 2009 11:58:21 GMT
No, whatever, one date out of 21 days is entirely unreasonable and the distances being reported are also. My sympathies are lying these people and the majority of ponies are measuring in.
I am extremely disappointed with the comment made by JMB quoted below, I thought this organisation was akin to a Professional Body:
"One can only guess why any owner would want to delay/hinder the process. "
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jul 14, 2009 12:50:40 GMT
No, whatever, one date out of 21 days is entirely unreasonable and the distances being reported are also. My sympathies are lying these people and the majority of ponies are measuring in. I am extremely disappointed with the comment made by JMB quoted below, I thought this organisation was akin to a Professional Body: "One can only guess why any owner would want to delay/hinder the process. " Sageandonion, maybe I'm being thick, but I don't quite understand what you're trying to say here?? Furthermore, what evidence do you have to catagorically state that 'the majority of ponies are measuring in'?? - Re-measurement results on the JMB website would indicate otherwise Presumably, if people went to great lengths to obtain a false result, they DO have something to hide. One well-known person has been qouted in H&H as saying that"she refuses to go along with it". So, again presumably, even if the JMB Secretary offered her lots of different dates and lots of different venues, she still would not (bother to) attend a re-measurement!!! I imagine that the JMB Sec considers that she's not alone, hence that comment......! (edited as I made a boob!) |
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Post by masters on Jul 14, 2009 13:18:15 GMT
Surely Parry show team it would more sensible to get the pony measured rather than go to a show just for a rosette!!!! You may lose entry fees but not £600 worth surely.
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There are times at my workplace when I cannot take time off and therefore could not produce my pony for being measured at an allocated time.
) but if I was only offered 1 date to attend, then I could find it very difficult if not impossible