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Post by footiefan on Aug 20, 2009 19:14:52 GMT
Why would the winner of the 14.2 class at the R.I.H.S. be devastated , she has won,whilst the second placed jockey would only be "slightly annoyed* I would be more than slighjtly annoyed if I was second to a pony that measured out. People keep talking about children being devastated ,if you dont want your child to be devasted buy them a pony that is the correct height for the class they are competing in ,at the end of the day parents/producers make the decision on what to buy, do they not. As a breeder I am fed up with people phoning about a pony I have for sale asking before anything else IS IT UP TO HEIGHT, NOT IS IT SUITABLE FOR A NOVICE JOCKEY,IS IT CLEAN LIMBED,etc I will not be signing the petition as you have probably gathered.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Aug 20, 2009 19:32:35 GMT
Why would the winner of the 14.2 class at the R.I.H.S. be devastated , she has won,whilst the second placed jockey would only be "slightly annoyed* I would be more than slighjtly annoyed if I was second to a pony that measured out. People keep talking about children being devastated ,if you dont want your child to be devasted buy them a pony that is the correct height for the class they are competing in ,at the end of the day parents/producers make the decision on what to buy, do they not. As a breeder I am fed up with people phoning about a pony I have for sale asking before anything else IS IT UP TO HEIGHT, NOT IS IT SUITABLE FOR A NOVICE JOCKEY,IS IT CLEAN LIMBED,etc I will not be signing the petition as you have probably gathered. As a 'mentor', I do feel very, very strongly for the rider of this year's RIHS winner. But not for the connections, who knew that the pony was 'near to the mark'. It is a hard price to pay. If you have a lovely child, why put them through this gross embarassment? I do really feel for that particular rider; and for the other riders cheated out of a high honour. xx |
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Post by horsesforcourses on Aug 20, 2009 19:37:26 GMT
ok wrong terminology used regarding 2nd pony...BUT the 14.2 was at the correct height when it was bought. You seem to be missing the point that i am against it mid season.
Can i ask you this ..... the grey 14.2 was NOT measured in Essex , was not a major winner ALL season as had 6th 7th and unplaced due to 'gelling taking place between new pony and rider... they Gel, it goes well ...it wins and BOOM Re- measurement requested ....why is this???
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Post by dalton on Aug 20, 2009 19:41:38 GMT
iI am the owner of the 2nd placed pony at RIHS, thank you all for your comments. We (the team) are dissapointed but at least we know that we didnt cheat and can hold our heads high knowing that our ponies are not over height and can look forward to the champs. Ifeel sorry for the jockey, she surley had nothing to do with this and to lose your ride one week before the champs must be devastating.I do feel that over the next year or so we will see the return of 'proper' classes, and ponies that are a couple of centimeters short of the height limit are going to be judged on their merit and not on how big they are. There are still a lot of very big ponies out there and maybe we should call on the judges to start putting the obviously big ones down the line
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Post by sugarcube on Aug 20, 2009 19:45:07 GMT
As the second place jockey at RIHS i feel no malace towards the first place jockey and i was beaten on the day by a lovely pony and the 2cm would not of made a diffrence to the judges oppinion on the day.
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Post by wornthetshirt on Aug 20, 2009 19:53:21 GMT
Dalton, you and your child jockey are very brave and very good losers. I wish you all the luck in the world next year with your pony.
horsesforcourses - we are both adult enough to know what we are talking about.
I really do have the utmost sympathy with the (very lovely) child jockey.
But, I have to ask, why put her, or any child, in this horrible position in the first place..............
edited to correct a typo
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Post by splashco on Aug 20, 2009 20:02:02 GMT
Can i just ask an opinion of anyone who watched this pony at the RIHS, did you watch the class and say "my goodness look at that pony it is huge in the class and will certainly win cos its the biggest" or " that pony is a true stamp of a SP and did a beautiful show".....anybody. (obviously it cant be a SP any more cos it has measured out) does this now mean any pony that wins a title it will be complained about? i haved watched this pony and personally did not think it was big or the biggest in the class. I also have noticed Pascal High Flyer has measured in easily( e.g not being 'let down' as he was shown up to measuring) Just because that has been winning someone had called it to be measured? because again not the biggest in the class. Mid season remeasuring is very bad sportsmanship IMO, lots of time and money is down the drain with entries etc, I know at the end of the day people are cheating but get them at the beginning of the season not at the middle or end.
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Post by tuppence on Aug 20, 2009 20:09:01 GMT
I have a subject for hypothetical discussion.
I have a 3 yo Hack that looks like it's going to be a small. However, both parents were 158cm. If I take her to be measured next January and she measures 154cm I can legally show her as a Small Hack. Should she go well, there is a small chance she could qualify for HOYS. If someone objects to her in August I will have to get her re-measured. In the intervening 7 months she could well have grown over 154cm and so measure out.
Have I done something wrong?
Do I lose my HOYS qualification just because I have a young (and therefore growing) horse?
If the answers is yes - she has grown over over and so can not be shown at HOYS, then surely we can't really show any horse until it has stopped growing?
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Aug 20, 2009 20:10:34 GMT
If a pony is overheight for it's class that is cheating. So why is it wrong to expose cheating in the middle of the season? I'm sorry but if you are competing a pony that is over height for it's class I have no sympathy if it measures out mid season. I do feel sorry for the jockeys but at the end of the day it's the owners/producers who have put the child in this situation - what are we supposed to do, allow the cheating to continue lest the child be upset? I'm sorry, but if your pony will not measure comfortably at any time of the year, then you need to enter it in the appropriate class - end of. If you were confident of making the height you wouldn't mind anyone measuring it, at any time.
Edited to add, my post was in answer to splashco.
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Post by lucynlizzysmum on Aug 20, 2009 20:13:21 GMT
As the second place jockey at RIHS i feel no malace towards the first place jockey and i was beaten on the day by a lovely pony and the 2cm would not of made a diffrence to the judges oppinion on the day. Hats off to you young lady and the very best of luck at the championships. |
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Post by JadeCannon on Aug 20, 2009 20:14:05 GMT
If the answers is yes - she has grown over over and so can not be shown at HOYS, then surely we can't really show any horse until it has stopped growing? I think it is up to owners/producers to keep an eye on the height of their horse throughout the season - if it gets 'big' remeasure it and do a larger height - if your horse is good enough you may forfeit your small hack qual but you shouldnt have a problem gaining your large qual? If it doesnt measure on the day - it shouldnt compete - I hate all this rubbish about measuring them when they are 'down' |
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Post by halfpass on Aug 20, 2009 20:17:39 GMT
Mid season remeasuring is very bad sportsmanship IMO, lots of time and money is down the drain with entries etc, I know at the end of the day people are cheating but get them at the beginning of the season not at the middle or end. To my mind putting over hight animals in the ring is bad sportsmanship, and money would not be wasted if they were in the right class for their hight in the first place. If it is true that these ponies grow a inch at the hight of the season and everyone wants them measured in there let down state in the winter, then why not make it that instead of the measurement being 14.2, in the winter knock it down the 14.1, then they have a bit of leeway for the summer condition. |
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Post by horsesforcourses on Aug 20, 2009 20:21:46 GMT
wornthe shirt - you are mistaken, i have no children
The muddy surroundings of the sudden re measurement of the RIHS winner are now becoming clear. The question of why is still uncertain, however, a professional capacity seems to be gleeming somewhere.
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Aug 20, 2009 20:22:47 GMT
Can i just ask an opinion of anyone who watched this pony at the RIHS, did you watch the class and say "my goodness look at that pony it is huge in the class and will certainly win cos its the biggest" or " that pony is a true stamp of a SP and did a beautiful show".....anybody. (obviously it cant be a SP any more cos it has measured out) does this now mean any pony that wins a title it will be complained about? i haved watched this pony and personally did not think it was big or the biggest in the class. I also have noticed Pascal High Flyer has measured in easily( e.g not being 'let down' as he was shown up to measuring) Just because that has been winning someone had called it to be measured? because again not the biggest in the class. Mid season remeasuring is very bad sportsmanship IMO, lots of time and money is down the drain with entries etc, I know at the end of the day people are cheating but get them at the beginning of the season not at the middle or end. here here....we constantly hear 'childrens society' here, and 'childrens society' there, but most of all, its the children that they are getting at with this measuring during the season, and they are the innocent ones here...........children dont buy the ponies, and children dont drive the wagons, and children dont pick the vets........but the children are the ones that get hurt... But that's not the fault of the people who request the remeasuring, that's the fault of the people who put them on overheight ponies in the first place, and then blame everyone else for the child being upset! |
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Post by tuppence on Aug 20, 2009 20:38:09 GMT
If the answers is yes - she has grown over over and so can not be shown at HOYS, then surely we can't really show any horse until it has stopped growing? I think it is up to owners/producers to keep an eye on the height of their horse throughout the season - if it gets 'big' remeasure it and do a larger height - if your horse is good enough you may forfeit your small hack qual but you shouldnt have a problem gaining your large qual? If it doesnt measure on the day - it shouldnt compete - I hate all this rubbish about measuring them when they are 'down' Your answer means that if you have a young horse or pony that is near the top end of its section you should put it in the next section up all season; as there is a chance it will go over. Surely this begins to make a mockery of the whole meaurement scheme? Your only other option would be to take it to the vets (without it's shoes) to be re-measured, every month. Are you seriously suggesting this? |
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Post by colourful on Aug 20, 2009 20:41:23 GMT
But that's not the fault of the people who request the remeasuring, that's the fault of the people who put them on overheight ponies in the first place, and then blame everyone else for the child being upset! correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure someone said that this pony was bought with a height certificate, and as many people seem to be saying, the pony did not look particularly large, then what exactly has the mother done wrong, should we all question height certificates every time we buy a pony.....for goodness sake....its getting out of hand....I am sure the childs mother bought this pony in good faith, and as it had not reached its 7th year I would imagine the last thing that this poor lady expected was all this to be happening.... Caveat Emptor - buyer beware! |
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Post by splashco on Aug 20, 2009 20:42:14 GMT
I agree. A height certificate means nothing anymore. Its ridiculouse (excuse the spelling).
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Post by JadeCannon on Aug 20, 2009 20:44:44 GMT
Your answer means that if you have a young horse or pony that is near the top end of its section you should put it in the next section up all season; as there is a chance it will go over. Surely this begins to make a mockery of the whole meaurement scheme? Your only other option would be to take it to the vets (without it's shoes) to be re-measured, every month. Are you seriously suggesting this? Should I do a bit in bold too? No, I am not telling you to take its shoes off & take it to the vets every month/week/day - but I am sure most people have a stick at home - although it may not be accurate - i simply measure my ponies with my stick before they go to measurement and make a note that at that height they will 'measure in', then I keep an eye on that height at home. Not a foolproof method but it keeps me in touch with how they are progressing height wise. |
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Milliesmum
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Post by Milliesmum on Aug 20, 2009 20:46:00 GMT
Well I was speaking in general, and not about any specific pony or producer/owner.
BUT - if I was buying an up to height pony and was parting with a substantial amount of cash - I personally would want it measured before I bought it, certificate or no!
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Post by JadeCannon on Aug 20, 2009 20:46:47 GMT
Are you seriously suggesting this? And are you seriously suggesting that ponies should just keep the same height that they are measured at in Jan - even if they grow 4/5/6 cms? |
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Post by colourful on Aug 20, 2009 20:52:18 GMT
Actually if you go back on this thread and on the previous one you will see what I have said - sadly it is a fact of life - you pay the expense of a vetting etc, why not just for clarity and peace of mind have the pony measured. As Milliesmum stated if I were parting with a large amount of cash I would have the pony measured as well - Caveat Emptor - if you dont do it at the time you have no redress.
Oh and not all ponies are ridden by children----------
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Post by colourful on Aug 20, 2009 20:53:58 GMT
Well I was speaking in general, and not about any specific pony or producer/owner. BUT - if I was buying an up to height pony and was parting with a substantial amount of cash - I personally would want it measured before I bought it, certificate or no! But thats just it, apparantly the pony did not look overheight.... No judge on the planet can accurately guess a ponys height - thats why they get measured.  |
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Post by wornthetshirt on Aug 20, 2009 21:23:07 GMT
wornthe shirt - you are mistaken, i have no children The muddy surroundings of the sudden re measurement of the RIHS winner are now becoming clear. The question of why is still uncertain, however, a professional capacity seems to be gleeming somewhere. Then I stand corrected. My abject apologies. (if they are due)... |
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Post by sugarcube19 on Aug 20, 2009 21:36:44 GMT
Who dicdeds that the Tickets that the ponies that have been measured out have won don't get passed down. I know it may sound harsh, but if you have paid your money and been beaten by a pony that should not have been in the class how is that fair? It would be complicated but surely not imposssible.
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Post by Guestless on Aug 20, 2009 21:50:19 GMT
....we constantly hear 'childrens society' here, and 'childrens society' there, but most of all, its the children that they are getting at with this measuring during the season, and they are the innocent ones here...........children dont buy the ponies, and children dont drive the wagons, and children dont pick the vets........but the children are the ones that get hurt... ...which makes it all the more reasonable for purchasers to take care not to buy or exhibit ponies that are overheight. Of course it is sad for the child jockey when their pony has its ticket taken away, but its easy enough to avoid this happening by making sure the pony is in the correct section in the first place. It's quite clear to me that if objections can be made mid-season, then exhibitors need to make sure their ponies will still measure in - if a successful horse like Pascal High Flyer can manage it, then I don't see what all the fuss is about. Play fair and you can sleep at night knowing you are not risking a child's happiness in the ring! |
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Post by diana on Aug 20, 2009 22:17:36 GMT
Most of the ponies in question have been out since March so why wait until they start winning to object. Clearly the connections of the over height animals are in the wrong however If a pony is suspected to be overheight then It should be remeasured regardless of its placing. Don’t wait until it starts to do well i.e. qualifying for HOYS essentially it is too late then as the pony placed second to it has missed out on their HOYS ticket and the class at HOYS will be missing another pony when the winner measures out. Imagine how disappointed you would be if you kept missing out on your ticket and all the ponies beating you were measuring out and you were still ineligible for HOYS?
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Post by ziggy on Aug 20, 2009 23:43:29 GMT
Regarding the RIHS 14.2 winner, I do feel terribly sorry for the jockey. The partnership looked on top form at RIHS, the pony certainly went the best in the class and on the day definitely deserved the win above all else.
It is a truly stunning pony but in my opinion not an intermediate. I am starting to worry that we will loose the bigger class types. Ie) a 12.2 measuring out and then starting 13.2 classes, I feel we may loose the 13.2 type (the two 12.2 sp called for re-measurement are not in anyway 13.2’s).
With reference to paschal high flyer, I am 99.9% sure it was because of the Essex vet and not the fact it had been objected to. Though please correct me if I am wrong!
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Post by wornthetshirt on Aug 21, 2009 6:25:23 GMT
wornthe shirt - you are mistaken, i have no children The muddy surroundings of the sudden re measurement of the RIHS winner are now becoming clear. The question of why is still uncertain, however, a professional capacity seems to be gleeming somewhere. Maybe I am being dense, but I do not know what you are implying by this. |
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Post by Rockstar on Aug 21, 2009 7:14:31 GMT
With reference to paschal high flyer, I am 99.9% sure it was because of the Essex vet and not the fact it had been objected to. Though please correct me if I am wrong! Yes Fly was measured in Essex this year. He actually re-measured 0.5cm smaller than in January! |
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Post by Guestless on Aug 21, 2009 8:50:16 GMT
With reference to paschal high flyer, I am 99.9% sure it was because of the Essex vet and not the fact it had been objected to. Though please correct me if I am wrong! Yes Fly was measured in Essex this year. He actually re-measured 0.5cm smaller than in January! Which goes to show you don't need to have an up-to-height horse to be successful....I really wish people would learn from this and stop taking so many chances.  |
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