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Post by monarch123 on Jun 9, 2009 3:26:32 GMT
i would just like to say that Moortown Countryman is a TRUE NOVICE he was only broken in this year and has had a fantastic year. He is a lovely pony and deserves everything he gets and has been produced to perfection. Well done Julie, John and Diane
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Post by sageandonion on Jun 9, 2009 7:07:48 GMT
Rather like our Politicians and the Expenses Scandal, often it is not about looking for a loophole in the rules but following the spirit of the thing.
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on Jun 9, 2009 7:19:54 GMT
I feel that this could possibly be about issues other than one class at this particular show.
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Post by ibelieve on Jun 9, 2009 7:24:15 GMT
Countryman is an absolutely stunning pony who is being produced to perfection, yes, nobody is doubting that. However, when the pony has qualified for HOYS and won countless other classes, it is simply not fair to contest it in a class which is for true novices and states that the pony should not have won - breed class or not - before the closing date of entries. This pony is a superstar - he doesnt need to enter classes like that.
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Post by ellieraga on Jun 9, 2009 7:58:00 GMT
Does a pony that has already qualified for olympia and hoys need to be in a novice class ? I agree that its not fair on the true novices that are starting out, whatever the rules state or dont state do people really need a red rosette that badly ??
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Post by Mistaken Identity on Jun 9, 2009 8:21:51 GMT
Think some are getting this pony mixed up with the other lovely pony Moortown Honeyman...................
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Post by pingpong on Jun 9, 2009 8:24:39 GMT
I think most of us know what a true novice class is and who is able to contest it. As said before when you have won numerous qualifiers and championships where is the thrill in taking a red rosette from a real novice.
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Post by ellieraga on Jun 9, 2009 8:57:55 GMT
Pingpong i totally agree and think you have said it all
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Post by tafsmum on Jun 9, 2009 10:16:22 GMT
I still dont see where they have not broken the rules - i no neither the breed of the pony in question neither have i seen it out and about (different ends of the country) - however if has qualfied for Olympia then it has won a breed class they are split accordingly. We denvoiced ourselves first season by wnating to enter 2 classe in a day rather than travelling for one however we were not even allowed to compete in the championship for novice even though he had qualified in his first season and only done opens to make the most of the day. So i have to agree with others on this forum that it was a poor misinterpretation of the rules, and i wouldnt be proud fo taking the rosette from pure novices. Maybe we could go back to local level and go trophy hunting at the end of the season! Isnt the principal just the same. I am no way taking away the fact that you have obviously done extremely well with him and i hope you continue to do so in the relevant classes .
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Post by sunnyday on Jun 9, 2009 10:20:22 GMT
Just so everyone can see the wording in the main schedule, which was very very long. "THE BAILEYS HORSE FEEDS NOVICE RIDDEN CHAMPIONSHIP Judge: Mrs J. Moore Entry Fee: EANPS Members £8.00 Non members £10.00 Open to Stallion, Mare or Gelding ponies, 4years and over, that have NOT won a first prize in any M&M Ridden Class. Class 6 WELSH D Class 7 DALES, FELL & HIGHLAND Class 8 DARTMOOR, EXMOOR & SHETLAND, WELSH SECTION A Class 9 CONNEMARA & NEW FOREST, Class 10 WELSH SECTION B & WELSH SECTION C CHAMPIONSHIP - 1st & 2nd prize winners from classes 6-10 will compete for the Baileys Trophy and Sash. The Champion & Reserve will receive vouchers for two bags and one bag respectively of feed kindly donated by Baileys Horse feeds." They must of scoured the rules to find that little blip, which is what it was, cause I and many others didnt notice it. If the rule was correct and people interpretted it the way they did, the class would of been busting with competitors. Basically it would of been open to many as there few shows that hold true breed classes. I spoke to the Organisers and they were truly embarrassed by this situation as this class was meant for true novices, but their hands were tied because of the loophole. They asked that people are made aware that this was not intentional and the rule regarding Breed will be removed for next year so that people cant interpret the rules incorrectly again. There were several complaints made to the organisers, but again their hands were tied. I am truly surprised as Summertimes pony is also produced by the same yard as Moortown Countryman, both are lovely ponies and do not need this on their record. People talk about spirit of showing, I dont think there is anymore, its more like dog eat dog, which is really really sad.
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Post by notsurprised on Jun 9, 2009 10:44:48 GMT
Well said, this is the main reason I gave up showing - true novices don't stand a chance against "produced" ponies I feel sorry for EANPS that there are people out there that will search for the tiniest of loopholes - both ponies are superb but do they need to do classes like this? ?
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Post by ellieraga on Jun 9, 2009 11:10:47 GMT
Tafsmum, i totally agree
At the end of the day whether breaking rules or not, anyone taking a horse/pony that has qualified hoys or olympia into a novice class surely is pothunting
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Post by sunnysideup on Jun 9, 2009 11:18:31 GMT
I totally agree with most of what has been said...why do you need to go in a class for "real" novices when you have already won several red rosettes this year? It doesn't give a very good name to producers either, the professionals enetering only because there is a loophole in the schedule. Definate pot hunting in my opinion.
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Post by White Knight on Jun 9, 2009 17:54:13 GMT
Ok so you are miffed. All you need to do is stop the bit*hing on here and write a nice letter to the show organisers and ask them to add " Never to have won a first prize up to the date of the show" to the rules for these classes in next year's schedule. The organisers are such a friendly, obliging set of people that they will probably do so. Find solace in the fact that a good example of its breed won this year.
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Post by monarch123 on Jun 9, 2009 18:40:24 GMT
I would like to reiterate, Moortown Countryman is a "real novice", he certainly is not a seasoned campaigner as HE WAS ONLY BROKEN IN THIS YEAR, IN JANUARY I BELIEVE, AND WE ARE NOW IN JUNE, so that is 5 months. He is a lovely dartmoor, one of the best and his breeders/owners are the nicest people you could/would want to meet and are a wealth of knowledge.
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linzi
Junior Member
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Post by linzi on Jun 9, 2009 19:49:24 GMT
i too can vouch that both countryman and fergus are really novice as im the one that schools them at home and shows them. they were not entered to pot hunt but am really sorry some of you are upset. if you dont believe their novice ponies next time you see me come and ask for a go on one of them especially countryman. i can assure you that once you've had a go you'll understand their novice babies plus i'll have A REALLY GOOD LAUGH watching you.
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Post by donkeydo on Jun 9, 2009 19:58:53 GMT
i too can vouch that both countryman and fergus are really novice as im the one that schools them at home and shows them. they were not entered to pot hunt but am really sorry some of you are upset. if you dont believe their novice ponies next time you see me come and ask for a go on one of them especially countryman. i can assure you that once you've had a go you'll understand their novice babies plus i'll have A REALLY GOOD LAUGH watching you. LOL! its because you obviously do a good job that they look like they maybe open ponies. But you can always tell a novice when you sit on one! Well done they are a credit to you.
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Post by wondered on Jun 9, 2009 20:12:16 GMT
Maybe you can explain why you felt the need to take a pony that has qualified for hoys or olympia into a non qualifier novice class, also i believe the organisers are aware of this and it WILL BE CHANGED in time for next years show
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Post by bopper on Jun 9, 2009 20:25:50 GMT
We had a great weekend. Chuffed to bits with my little connie stallion, Ardbear Spirit. 1st & champ nps novice whp 1st picton novice 1st Ridden connies
He just lost the plot in the rain. Doesn't do rain, we have a field shelter at home & he gallops at full speed at any sign of it.
Hope everyone has dried out!!
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Post by Summertime on Jun 10, 2009 6:42:03 GMT
Facts:- the rule regarding classes 6 - 11 refers to a 'breed' class has been in the EANPS schedule for years and years and most past winners have used this rule. So this rule had not been mistakenly left in and is certainly not a loop hole as has been suggested! You can not interpret a breed class a breed class is a breed class! Perhaps the people that complained the most and have posted on this thread are new to EANPS!
You cant Pot Hunt at EANPS - it is the most prestigious show in East Anglia, the class the Baileys Novice Ridden is also one of the most prestigious classes there is to win!
Sunnyday - you say the organisers have said these things?? Who has said these things if you don't want to publically put their name please pm me as I would be very interested to know as EANPS have been very supportive to me and explained the situation on the day. The complaint was raised and quickly squashed by EANPS officials. It took all of 30 seconds by the ringside!
Both ponies were eligible end of story!
There are only 34 rules in the EANPS so you hardly have to scour them to find the rules, which you would have to read to find out which bits are allowed also for the Novice Ridden classes. I make no apologies for the fact that I read the rules and found out which bit we were allowed and to check that my pony was eligible. If you do not read the rules that is up to you! But do not hold it against me that I do!
I was told by EANPS that they wish to change this for next year which is fine for 2010!
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Post by wornthetshirt on Jun 10, 2009 7:04:35 GMT
I have been watching this thread with interest and it seems to be turning into a witch-hunt.
Professional or Homeproduced, all young ponies and horses have to start somewhere.
So, "notsurprised" (a guest) your comment about true novices not standing a chance against the professionals just doesn't stack up. A novice class is not the same as a home-produced class.
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Post by ellieraga on Jun 10, 2009 8:06:17 GMT
Summertime surely if they are going to change the rule for 2010 then there was a problem with the eligibilty of who should or shouldnt of been in the class If there wasnt a problem then surely there would be no need to change it for next year ?? Nothing can be done re the result now but i assume they are doing this to prevent this happening again next year ??
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Post by shud sj on Jun 10, 2009 8:11:11 GMT
The rules are there in black and white and both these ponies are true novices. I think the fact that they are both so young and have only come out under saddle this year the producer, rider's and owners should be congratulated on there success not slated or put down as pot hunter's. I thought we are in this sport for the same thing Firstly FUN and secondly too COMPETE.
I think so many of you also forget that Fergus is ridden by a child and her and her mum do fantastic job and are the nicest people you could come across, so maybe you can bare that in mind.
I wish Amber and Claire all the very best with Fergus and think that Julie is doing a fantastic job with all her ponies again this season.
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Post by ellieraga on Jun 10, 2009 8:22:52 GMT
I dont think from reading these posts that anybody has doubted what lovely ponies these are, just questioning what this class is really for or should be for
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Post by shud sj on Jun 10, 2009 8:41:27 GMT
There has been the comment re pot hunting and that some people will do anything for a red rosette !!
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Post by rhinnspoint on Jun 10, 2009 9:10:53 GMT
The rules are there in black and white and both these ponies are true novices. I think the fact that they are both so young and have only come out under saddle this year the producer, rider's and owners should be congratulated on there success not slated or put down as pot hunter's. I thought we are in this sport for the same thing Firstly FUN and secondly too COMPETE. I think so many of you also forget that Fergus is ridden by a child and her and her mum do fantastic job and are the nicest people you could come across, so maybe you can bare that in mind. I wish Amber and Claire all the very best with Fergus and think that Julie is doing a fantastic job with all her ponies again this season. Echo shud sj, well said, couldn't have put it better myself! As Fergus' breeder, I have kept in close contact with him, he is a "true novice", he has not won a breed class, the pony is only five years old, just a baby!! his first time out was last October/November!
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Post by springer on Jun 10, 2009 9:52:04 GMT
Jealousy rears it's ugly head again.! Which producer will be in the firing line next week I wonder. The people in question do a superb job & get the results. They would know the rules better than anyone & yet people on here still try to put them & the ponies they produce down. Of course they win a lot of Red Rosettes as they produce the ponies so well whether In hand, Open or Novice & have superb jockeys as well. Let them get on with their job & keep on winning I say.
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Jun 10, 2009 10:12:35 GMT
I don't really see why this discussion has anything to do with producers anyway, rather on what classes owners choose to do with their ponies, and that could apply to both professionals and amateurs.
There does seem an increased incidence nowadays, for better or worse, of ponies doing top open classes when still in their first, novice season. Perhaps shows/societies should take a close look at the rules for novice classes to ensure they only get the ponies they want taking part?
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Post by ibelieve on Jun 10, 2009 11:04:51 GMT
If the pony is a true novice, enter it in novice classes. If the pony is an open, enter it in open classes. Simple. Why is the pony entered in and winning HOYS qualifiers if it is a true novice? It should be one or the other.
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Post by shud sj on Jun 10, 2009 11:41:09 GMT
I don't think it so much that the societies have to a re think about the classes, at the end of the day it is owner's preference if they wish to do Novice classes with a youngster at the start of the season and if that novice is doing very well there choice if they want to take the chance in doing open classes and risk loosing it's novice status. Obviously if you have a grt novice that can hold it's own in Hoys, Olympia or RI classes then fair play.
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