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Post by a judge on Jul 24, 2009 22:35:38 GMT
you can splint there legs and put weights round the fetlock and then lunge them which makes them have to bring there legs straight up and that would help explain why the mare sits back and waves her head when she goes as she is not balanced. not saying this is what they do but there are many ways to enhance movement. the mares front leg action is either unnatural or very incorrect. she does not flex her hocks and to compare her to cc planed is laughable!! planed actually powered from behind and moved straight from the shoulder. planed also bent his knee then extended where as she just lifts her leg straight up.
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Post by Just think on Jul 24, 2009 22:37:25 GMT
After having read several threads on this forum, i've come to the conclusion that the most of you on here, are on the whole, not very bright, are you? A way to change a ponies movement such as that is to work it with it knees tightly bandaged, forcing it to have to throw its legs up like that, in order to be able to move. I've also heard of people with lunge whips flicking the ponies feet whilst lunging it in order to make them pick their feet up more And anyway, the bigger question is (though i doubt anyone here has thought of it...) would you see a wild mountain pony moving this extravagantly over the rough welsh terrain?..Answer..No!!! If a mountain pony moved like that in its natural environment it would either fall straight onto its face or it would break a leg.. this this cannot be considered a natural movement!!!
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Post by a judge on Jul 24, 2009 22:43:28 GMT
just think, we must of been typing at the same time and i think it says alot that we both said the same way to change movement!!! ;D
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Post by jaymar2228 on Jul 24, 2009 22:50:32 GMT
Well I for one have not the time to work a pony with tightly bandaged knees 24/7 and flicking a lunge whip at its feet is a short term wake up for a lazy inactive trot and will never result in a permanent movement exaggeration however as one of the not so bright who am I to say
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Post by what numpties on Jul 24, 2009 23:18:03 GMT
A judge and Just Think, What planet are you on, are you on drugs to be spouting such utter tosh?! It must be the same planet where people think that all ponies that 'move' must have been shut in the dark for 3 months, and led blindfolded to the ring. Pulleys, splints, bandaged knees, weights and whipped legs ahahaha dont make me laugh. The Kilbeys will be rolling on the floor right now to hear of the methods you think they need to employ to 'teach' a pony to move. Perhaps if you visited you could see if you can find any of these contraptions in the tack room!! YOu quote - 'i've come to the conclusion that the most of you on here, are on the whole, not very bright, are you' yeh too right you arent!!!
I have watched this mares movement awe struck since she was a yearling, her action has never changed and is completely natural. Believe it or not she even goes in a field and eats grass you know, Yes she is a freak of nature but thats just the bit you people cant grasp NATURE. If you actually bothered to watch her properly you will see her power is from behind, she drops her back when she starts to motor and that is where the engine is. Granted when the mud was thick I think she was affected as her tail was thick with mud but could you tell us what other ponies you thought moved particularly outstandingly over that mire? As for Coed Coch another judge commented that it was Coed Coch Rhion who moved in a similar fashion and I believe Siglen Las.
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Post by part 2 on Jul 24, 2009 23:27:50 GMT
champ mare - anyone can say they follow Coed Coch in their breeding, seeing as they appear in most welsh ponies breeding somewhere along the lines. are to be more specific - has your Coed Coch influence changed to the modern Revel in more recent years?.....
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Post by D Gelding Marks on Jul 25, 2009 8:00:14 GMT
RE: Ridden Marks.... The Geldings-
1st- 46 48 94 2nd- 45 48 93 3rd- Finished on 91
Very close for first and Second though!
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Post by Tosh on Jul 25, 2009 8:26:21 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2nFQUCsbq0Listen to the commentary by Dr Wynn... There are things this gentleman knows that most of the people spouting on here could not hope to learn in their lifetimes about the breed.
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Post by lexy on Jul 25, 2009 9:04:20 GMT
cheshmere - wow fantastic results !! (there is a pic of flashman in my photos) hairys - no was not in the ring, other than when I was running around it myself with pony Glad you like the photos ! More to come ... Re Springlane Pebbles, personally I thought she completely deserved her win and championship, as did most of the people around me in the grandstand when the championship was being judged. Her other results from last 2 years include: 1st & Res A Champion, Northleach 2008 1st & A champion & M&M champion, South of England 2008 3rd Royal Welsh 2007 2nd Northleach 2007 2nd South of England 2007 So are those of you saying that you think her movement is false and she is not true to type saying that ALL these judges dont know what they are talking about ?!? If you look at other Legend stock, they also move like this. Take Idyllic Enterpeneur as an example, who is another prolific winner in the show ring, including 1st at RW last year: www.idyllicstud.com/individuals/entrepreneur/entrepreneur.htmI did also love the Friars filly (Friars Queen of Hearts), also stunning. As for the A judging and different types, I do agree that he didnt necessarily have one particular type in all the top places, but I dont think there is anything wrong with that. The majority of those in top 6 all had lots of quality and movement (the Shamrocklake snr broodmare winner took my breath away when she powered into the ring at start of the class). And there were some common bloodlines repeatedly appearing e.g. another Springlane mare was also 2nd in broodmare class (Springlane Propsperity), also there was a lot of Crumpwell prefix/bred ponies doing very well. And after all, why should a pony of a slightly different type (but still beautiful pony) be punished by being put at the end of the line ? There are often ponies I look at and think that it would not be my preference to own/breed from, but I can still appreciate that it is a good pony. I would prefer to see someone who can look at the pony in front of him and judge it on its merits than someone who puts a certain very particular type all in top places for sake of it, even if inferior in terms of basic conformation/movement. Lexy
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Post by avenger on Jul 25, 2009 9:18:03 GMT
Well said lexy
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Post by Slow on Jul 25, 2009 9:40:16 GMT
It still wouldn't be able to move like that over the welsh terrain and thus is not trotting how a mountain pony should, i know a lot of you including judges are easily impressed by a big trot, which leads to some big wins, but it still isn't correct, the pony WOULD fall over if it were doing that in it's natural environment.
If you think about it the fell, dales, highland, dartmoor, exmoor, NF etc etc all move how they do on their respective moors and hills the pony, despite being a lovely pony does not move how a mountain pony would.
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Post by part 3 on Jul 25, 2009 9:59:30 GMT
Champ mare the way you keep going on you sound really bitter, and as for this well many many people saw old man idyllic kick his mare up the backside in the ring on camera on Tuesday - disgusting behaviour and he should have been kicked out of the ring and disqualified from future classes that day! It horrifies me to think what else they do if they will kick one of their ponies up the backside in view of thousands of people, not only at the show, but on camera too!' I'm not condoning cruelty but honestly 'Old man idyllic's' legs are in such a bad way he wouldnt have got very far, and certainly wouldnt have reached the mares backside!!! I think you are just finding fault at any cost, your grapes must be very sour haha
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Post by diamondsapphire on Jul 25, 2009 10:37:07 GMT
FAO 'Just Think' guest - I asked the question about the false movement as I am not aware of how this is done. I have never heard of it, done it myself or seen any of my friends doing it - however I have only been on the show circuit a few years. Thank you for answering mine and others' question regarding the movement - however to state that I and others are not very 'bright' just because we don't know I think is below the belt. Just because someone has not seen/heard about something does not go hand in hand with us not being 'bright'. There are always things to learn, as goes the saying 'learn something new everyday' - even the most experienced horsemen/women admit this - so I personally feel you are portraying yourself as slightly arrogant by assuming that just because you know how this is done and someone else doesn't - that you are 'brighter' than them. From your earlier statement this is clearly not the case!
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Post by reality check on Jul 25, 2009 10:59:09 GMT
diamond sapphire, don't worry about 'just think', people like that THINK they know everything. You probably havent heard anything about false movement and training to achieve it because it doesnt exist and people really can't train a pony to move like that. If they could they would be very rich! Pebbles owners would be happy to show her to anyone at home to see her temperament and how she is kept, they are the first to admit she is a freak of nature.
Stay as you are - open minded, keep your eyes open and learn by listening but remember that some of what you will hear needs to be taken with a pinch of salt!
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Post by sparklepony on Jul 25, 2009 11:01:38 GMT
you can splint there legs and put weights round the fetlock and then lunge them which makes them have to bring there legs straight up and that would help explain why the mare sits back and waves her head when she goes as she is not balanced. not saying this is what they do but there are many ways to enhance movement. the mares front leg action is either unnatural or very incorrect. she does not flex her hocks and to compare her to cc planed is laughable!! planed actually powered from behind and moved straight from the shoulder. planed also bent his knee then extended where as she just lifts her leg straight up. Ive never heard anything so funny, if someone tied weights round your legs and then took them off would you stay running as if you had them on??? Best laugh Ive had in ages! ;D
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annag006
Junior Member
www.locksleystud.co.uk
Posts: 107
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Post by annag006 on Jul 25, 2009 11:16:51 GMT
Paris Hilton song springs to mind... Jealousy, jealousy, jealousy It's such an evil thing to watch someone have Jealousy, jealousy, jealousy Nobody wins when you're full of envy It would be interesting to see what IP address all these 'guests' have, maybe its the same person?? I just read all the comments and it really hasn't got anything to do with me, but oooooh the drama! Come on ''Don't worry, be happy'' I thought the welsh mountain was lovely, I would love to have her in my stable But about the welsh B's, I was told by a few different people - loooong before RWAS who the champ / res champ and winners were going to be and YES that came true. I think THAT is more worrying.... Judge staying over at the people's home, going to dinner, actually saying that they would win etc etc same year as the show.. I didn't believe it at first but now I do... Most of the welsh sec B's are lovely, so I don't want to knock any of the winners down. I'm just reading the results and comparing it to what I was told before hand... Well done anyway to all the winners!
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Post by another way on Jul 25, 2009 11:21:22 GMT
Another way to affect movement is by using weighted shoes! I have actually seen Pebbles with shoes on in the past that must have been over an inch thick! they are weighted in the toe to make the pony pick their feet up then the shoes are removed and replaced with ally plates, the pony still moves as if it is carrying heavy weights on its feet as this is how it has been trained to going with the weighted shoes on, hence you get this extravagant, exagerrated movement!
Don`t think in all reality anyone can dispute the movement is impressive, but it certainly isn`t correct for a welsh mountain pony.
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Post by Champ mare on Jul 25, 2009 11:27:27 GMT
champ mare - anyone can say they follow Coed Coch in their breeding, seeing as they appear in most welsh ponies breeding somewhere along the lines. are to be more specific - has your Coed Coch influence changed to the modern Revel in more recent years?..... Why are you so bothered about my breeding? It`s nothing to do with you? And why would you think from Coed Coch I would move to Revel? Very bizarre! It would appear many of you on here are not prepared to let others have their opinion! As I`ve said previously, I do like the mare, BUT her movement although impressive, isn`t Welsh Mountain pony movement - end of! You can slate me all you like for having an opinion (that is shared by many others ), but I will not be rising to it - you just stay with your heads in the sand kissing the Kilbeys backsides! And yes, old man Idyllic DID kick the mare up the backside, and I find it ridiculous for you to say he can hardly raise his legs when he is in the ring handling a pony - obviously he is fit enough to do that! Won`t be commenting anymore as you are obviously not aware of what the breed specification states regarding movement and would prefer to support and promote something which isn`t to the breed specification - god help our society!
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michelle jones ziggyy
Guest
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Post by michelle jones ziggyy on Jul 25, 2009 11:45:09 GMT
thankyou its brill to watch x
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Post by blackknight on Jul 25, 2009 11:52:32 GMT
Thanks everyone for my Monday congrats with Tommy C o c k l e s in the sec C 3yr old colt class - we are over the moon. Cant wait to ride him there next year!! Congrats to Fiona and Harri ( the Great) you were our winner, he looked and went fabulous and a special well done to Terry and Flash!!!!
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Post by hunter on Jul 25, 2009 12:13:03 GMT
first off yes every one is entitled to there opinion , but not when it suggests the use of cruelty , splints ,heavy shoes, dark stables !!!!!! why can some of you not get it into your head this pony was born to move like it ,wether you think its correct or not is imaterial , yes it has very exhuberant action so what ,i fully understand its a thing you would either love or hate .As for saying it would fall over on a hill !! please get real !. And how anyone can say its not moving from behind all i can say is some of the mud from the ring must have got in your eyes!!! and as for not balanced LOL IN THAT RING IF IT WASNT BALANCED IT WOULD HAVE ENDED UP ON ITS RSE !!!! Anyway is it causing a pony to move artificialy by shaking bottles of stones at it or rustling plastic bags at it or blowing at it because if it is then 99.9% of people have ''artificial ''ponies . HOW lovely not to have to do that .
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Post by what numpties on Jul 25, 2009 12:29:59 GMT
ok another way would you care to state who you are?!
Because you are very mistaken, Pebbles has NEVER worn a set of shoes of any weight in her life!!! They would probably ruin her movement. shoes an inch thick, hahaha another laugh god its funny the crap people dream up No i'm not a Kilbey but i sure as hell know what i'm talking about
I'm afraid you just don't get it do you the pony is a natural phenomenom rightly or wrongly
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Post by MRS b on Jul 25, 2009 12:41:21 GMT
OPEN INVITE- IDYLLIC STUD All those who doubt this mare's movement are duely invited to the Idyllic Stud to see Springlane Pebbles for themselves. Please bring your own chains/bandages/splints and lunge whips as these are not used at the stud. A prize will be given to anyone who can lunge Pebbles with nothing on, let alone chains!!! She has never been lunged in her life. I am affraid those that wish to come may want to bring a newspaper or such as Pebbles leads a boring ordinary life!! Tea and Coffee served upon arrival. Humble Pie served cold upon departure.
Liz and Mark work hard all year to produce their ponies to the high standards everyone has come to expect from the Idyllic stud. For anyone to say they use any unnatural methods to produce extravagant movement is utter insanity. They adore ALL of their ponies.
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Post by hannahlh on Jul 25, 2009 12:45:15 GMT
ok you have all had your say, you are all entitled to your opinion, not everybody likes the same thing, would be a very boring world if we did. BUT your are taking away from this pony and her owners propably the proudest moment of their lives..How fair is that??? Imagine they come on here and read that some of you are accusing that they use cruelty like you have suggested to win that class. How would you like it if you won a class and you were on cloud 9 then you came on here and read that people were accusing you of allsorts and ripping your pony to shreds...you would be devestated!!!!!!! and no i have no connections to the family or the pony but you are all being horribly unfair and nasty, read what you have posted back to yourselves and ask yourself if you would like that said about you and your pony!!!!! GET A LIFE AND A GRIP AND GET OVER IT.............TODAY IS ANOTHER DAY!!!!! Well done to Lexy and Sarah for their results with Leo and Sophie pony. Also To Shona and Fiona with Pennal the great who looked and went fantastcally, to Terry and Flash and all their connections and to eveyone else who competed in all that mud and horrible weather, and whether you were placed or not had a lovely experiance and came home with a smile in your face and enjoyed your ponies.
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Post by hunter on Jul 25, 2009 12:55:55 GMT
another way im sorry but you are either a bare faced liar or looking at the wrong pony ! so what show was it you saw these platform shoes at ? and when ?
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Post by MRS b on Jul 25, 2009 13:00:31 GMT
Thank the lord for some sanity. Thank you hannahlh. No one was more taken aback on the day than the Kilbeys that Pebbles won her class let alone female champ and section a champ!!!! Leave them alone with all your silly speculation and let them enjoy the thrill of winning the biggest show of the season. No judge can please everyone. Well done Liz and Mark and well done Pebbles!!!
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Post by guest guest on Jul 25, 2009 13:02:56 GMT
I stated on here that the so called 'mountain and moorland' specialists were the most vindictive in the showing world following the thread regarding 'north of england show' which has since had to be removed. Keep going on this one and you nasty people will get this thread removed too.
You are really unbelievable.
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lynne
Full Member
Posts: 304
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Post by lynne on Jul 25, 2009 13:10:40 GMT
well going on the amount of people who come on this site and know more than the judge;s the wpca should have a long waiting list for these very talented people waiting to step into the shoes of nearly every judge we have, to quote just afew "facey" "hav;nt a clue" "bent" "blind" ect why do we all spend are hard earned cash to stand before these so called judge;s if they are so useless & corrupt!!!!!
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Post by lexy on Jul 25, 2009 13:20:36 GMT
Well said Hannah (and thanks for comments re Leo / Sophie) Lexy.
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Post by poop on Jul 25, 2009 14:39:53 GMT
here is a nice picture of Springlane Pebbles showing how she doesn't use her hocks lol! Shes actually only going at about 50% id say in this one and i think this one speaks for its self look how the foreleg and hind are at the same angle ;-) if she isn't moving straight from the shoulder then where is it from?
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