Is it actually worth working..............

[nici]

Jun 25, 2012 22:44:19 GMT nia2311 said:

My vision is of young mothers who continue in purposeful education and who can then work their way out of the social housing and benefits. Nursery care is also needed to support this vision - it is too expensive at present.

Nia I agree with you on this. My niece fell pregnant during her A level year, and was "written off" - what a shame she had so much potential, now she'll end up working in Woollies, etc.

What no one bet on were her determination primarily, the support of her parents (my sister and BIL) and the support of her boyfriend. They had planned to study at the same university, so he switched to a 4 year course and she took a gap year to have the baby. She lived with her parents for that year, then when the baby was a year old, they went off to Uni together, my niece in her first year, her b/f in his second. They shared family accommodation and the baby went with them, with a place at the creche. My sister had the baby at crucial exam times, otherwise they looked after her between them. My niece graduated with a first class honours degree in education, and has been teaching for several years. Her b/f got a good degree too and works in social care.

None of the professional advisers recommended her career approach - she was offered the easy options of childcare, hairdressing etc. as there's no way she would be able to manage a degree. She proved them very wrong

[amumwithapony]

Its lovely to hear of people who are placed in difficult situations and don't roll over and work the system. So it is possible to achieve things when the chips are down.

Having a sister who fell pregnant at 15, had her baby at 16 and was abandonded by all I know how difficult it must be. She is at 31 married with another child and has made decent life for them all. Her and her hubby both work and she has battled her way through life.

At 27 with qualifications it was hard being a single parent so god only knows how it must feel at 15/16/17. But these stories just show what is possible.

I get cross when people say to me we are lucky as my hubby earns a decent wage and I have recently set up my own business. Anything and everything we have is earned by blood, sweat and tears. Its not easy being self employed and its not easy running 2 business's through a recession. But we do it by working hard.

And 1/4 of what we earn supports people who don't want to work.

[cayo]

I agree there is a lost generation in fact several but society has made this lost generation and again this is a seperate issue to the welfare state bad houseing bad schooling and no jobs in their area have created these estates and now cameron is trying to create more by saying people on benefit who cant afford to live where they do must move somewhere cheaper so they are going to create more problem areas by grouping all the unemployed together .what we need is good affordable social houseing that the less well off can afford if we went forward with a building programe we would create jobs and have houses the welfare state could better afford to put the unemployed in we have no social houseing any more which why we have such huge rent bills people cant buy because the house prices have been pushed up and up by the demand for rentel property rents are far to high as are house prices if w ebuild social houseing then house prices will fall and if this gov pays its hb to the claiment then they are stupid it was changed years ago to pay staright to the landlord and it needs changeing back we to used to rent out a property and we were paid straight by the council then .
we cannot let the welfare state be ruined for all for he sake of a few who abuse it by all means route them out and offer them help but if you truley feel there is a job out there for all if they want it you are mistaken there is not ,these problem estates are a huge problem and we need to put an end to them one way or another and we need stop calling them and blameing them for all the counrtys woes i agree totally with getting them training and back to work but having them work in supermarket filling shelves for free or or even £96 a week is demeaning for them if they need shelf fillers ok train em with no pay will take maybe a week then pay them the going rate offering the jobless to companies to work for nothing in meanial jobs and calling it training and apprenticships where little training is needed is not going to increase the job market or get them a job is it ,i have no qualms with it if the company offers them a job at the end of the so called training also there are very few actual skilled apprenticships on offer like the ones you mention a real apprenticship offers you trade to learn and a full time well paid job at the end of it not a place back in the dole que when youve trained lets face even the kids in uni have little hope of a job when they leave so what hope do the people on these problem estates have ,i have a daughter on an apprenticship and she couldnt mange to do it without our support and i couldnt support her if we were on benefit so she is very lucky to be doing it but she isnt getting a job at the end of it either she will be signing on if she cant find a job as the nursary she is training at will simply set on another appentice but at least she will have her nvq in child care but sadley still no job .
sink estates i understand what you say and it is awful that these places have evolved but i dont agree that a blanket reform of welfare available will cure the problem it will simpley serve to make life much harder for the genuine claiments .
mumwithapony please explain why you think those in work are penalised tax credits are there to top up low paid workers at the moment but i believe they are scraping this what they are to replace it with i dont know but again this has to be a step in the wong direction people have to be made to feel better off working so as i see it wages and working tax credits need increasing so people in work have a living wage and not a minimum wage which is what we have now the government calculate how much people need to live on while ill or unemployed and that is a minumm ammount that fact that they hav egot it wrong and some have found ways to claim all sorts of other benefits and so end up with more than they should have is the governments error and they should be looking to close these loopholes maybe having one benefit and one benefit only so they cant do this maybe they could do this when they close the loopholes that help the tax avoiders paying what tax they should .

[emma3870]

An ex friend who is over 30, never worked in her life, has two kids, now single after splitting with partner. Rent paid, council tax paid, £1500 when she moved into new house for furniture, new laptops for kids, x box, play station and Wii. Me and hubby have worked all our lives and couldn't afford all that! They also have new phones every few months. She earns more in benefits in a week than I earn in a month! She could get off her backside and do something but would rather stay drinking and smoking like a chimney instead all day. Even gets one of my friends from school to pick up and drop son to school as she can't walk the mile anymore. That won't last much longer as lift realises she is taking the pee!

It's a well known fact in our nearby town that if you get pregnant when you leave school you get a flat, money and can spend all benefit day getting smashed with your like minded friends. This aspect of benefits needs stamping on and fast!

[Erinx]

Jun 26, 2012 6:00:03 GMT amumwithapony said:

Its lovely to hear of people who are placed in difficult situations and don't roll over and work the system. So it is possible to achieve things when the chips are down.

Having a sister who fell pregnant at 15, had her baby at 16 and was abandonded by all I know how difficult it must be. She is at 31 married with another child and has made decent life for them all. Her and her hubby both work and she has battled her way through life.

At 27 with qualifications it was hard being a single parent so god only knows how it must feel at 15/16/17. But these stories just show what is possible.

I get cross when people say to me we are lucky as my hubby earns a decent wage and I have recently set up my own business. Anything and everything we have is earned by blood, sweat and tears. Its not easy being self employed and its not easy running 2 business's through a recession. But we do it by working hard.

And 1/4 of what we earn supports people who don't want to work.

But benefits aren't just claimed by those who don't want to work. Everybody seems to have a stereotype for who is claiming benefits when they are probably the minority.

I can't work full time, I'm my daughters carer. I work 2 days a week and my husband works full time. But yes u get benefits, Carers allowance, tax credits and my daughter gets dla. Up until two years ago I was full time. (and she only gets the care component of dla and no mobility)

I know people take advantage but there are plenty of deserving people who claim benefits too.

[cayo]

Jun 26, 2012 7:23:44 GMT emma3870 said:

An ex friend who is over 30, never worked in her life, has two kids, now single after splitting with partner. Rent paid, council tax paid, £1500 when she moved into new house for furniture, new laptops for kids, x box, play station and Wii. Me and hubby have worked all our lives and couldn't afford all that! They also have new phones every few months. She earns more in benefits in a week than I earn in a month! She could get off her backside and do something but would rather stay drinking and smoking like a chimney instead all day. Even gets one of my friends from school to pick up and drop son to school as she can't walk the mile anymore. That won't last much longer as lift realises she is taking the pee!

It's a well known fact in our nearby town that if you get pregnant when you leave school you get a flat, money and can spend all benefit day getting smashed with your like minded friends. This aspect of benefits needs stamping on and fast!

stories like this are so common place but benefits dont simpley give people money to move and furniture you have to apply for a urgent needs loan and it is taken back out of the benefit they recieve but some do get away with taking the pee out of the system and it is of course this that needs stopping if you think she is cheating the system report her i would to save thise who truley need benefits from looseing them

[georgie0]

Milliesmum - Yep I'm one of the ones who ended up with a baby being supported by benefits. I found your post slightly offensive in that it is all very well to say that, but things happen. I for one went through 5 years of desperatly attempting to have a baby with my ex husband (we split up mainly due to it) then found myself pregnant after a one night with an ex boyfriend and after years of thinking i couldn't have children.
I worked with horses, my boss sacked me when i shortly after i told her i was pregnant and i have had no choice but to survive on goverment funding.
What i am finding very difficult at the min, is now my daughter is nearly a year old i would like to find a part time job and retrain to do something else. But under the age of 3, you get no help with nursery fees, which when you are on MW is more than you would earn, or funding for courses. I don't want the world on a plate and i will do it anyway even though it will cost be because it is worth it, but i think there are issues that need to be addresses.
I don't like the idea to scrap HB for all under 25s. How can they enforce a blanket ban like that?! What happens is, like my friend, you are 19 with nowhere else to go due to an unpleasant family home and you have a daughter out of a loving relationship that went wrong?! Where is the fairness in that?

[sageandonion]

You see, I am just not understanding how people complain that, because they did the wrong thing and were 'forced' to live on off other people (benefits paid by the working person's taxes) they are hard done by because the Government are making it difficult by not making more money (MY money) available to fund x, y and z.

What about the young couples who are desperate to have a child but responsibly do not, because they cannot afford not to have one give up work and with the price of nursery care there would be no prospect of returning. So they remain childless.

Do not go complaining there is not enough help (money given to you) when others are worse off paying to keep you. This is the 'entitlement' society we have.

Presume the majority are keeping ponies on their benefits.

Indeed there are a lot who have made a mistake, despite all the free contraception etc and didn't deliberately have one, two, three and more children. But tell me please, why on earth do the rest of us have to pay for your mistakes?

[amumwithapony]

There is help with childcare GeorgiaO, you should get tax credits if you are working part time and if you are doing a course there is funding you can apply for or free nursery places.

The reason I think those in work are penalised for doing so cayo is that if you work, part if your income goes towards paying tax and N.I. If you continue to work throughout your life you will continue to pay tax on your earnings.

Because I was working when my OH was ill, it meant that we could claim no help with anything else. I still had my rent to find and the council tax, plus utility bills, plus feed us. If I had not been working we could have claimed to have our rent paid and council tax and got money each week in benefits. So as a family we would have been able to claim about £450 in HB, about £160 a week in income support and £110 a month HB. So we were penailised to the value of about £1300 a month!

Hardly fair when we both work and contribute so much to the system I think

I can only speak for the building industry when discussing apprentiships. The industry is screaming out, even in the midst of a recession, for skilled tradesmen in all sectors. There are schemes available. And even offering £300-£400 a week for 35 hours work isn't enough to tempt some back off benefits. And thats just for labourers. Hardly the most glamourous job I agree, but everyone has to start somewhere and learn a trade. You starts at the bottom and you works your way up. Its how it goes.

But when you think that a young, single person can claim £350 HB a month, then £100 council tax then £240 I think a month in JSA its about £700 a month JUST in benefits. So IT is easier for them to stay on benefits than take a job and earn £700 for working all month.

BUT it doesn't make it right does it?

[sageandonion]

Shocked at the number of people on here keeping ponies and children whilst on long term benefits. It seems it is their right to do so and complaints are they are not receving enough.

I most definitely will be voting conservative to have this abuse, on what should be short time help for those that have paid into the system, stopped.

[viking]

Jun 26, 2012 9:39:16 GMT said:

Shocked at the number of people on here keeping ponies and children whilst on long term benefits. It seems it is their right to do so and complaints are they are not receving enough.

I most definitely will be voting conservative to have this abuse, on what should be short time help for those that have paid into the system, stopped.

Agree with you s&o.

Quite honestly I don't see why my husband has had to work his butt off for years to pay for the unprotected or inadequately protected biological urge of other people. If you want children, don't expect others to pay for them, and please, if you want them to have ponies, be prepared to pay for the pony also. Don't expect others to finance this indulgent aspiration.

Enough is enough!

[Milliesmum]

Absolutely agree with you viking! I don't have a horse at the moment. I gave up working to have my children, gave up the horse because on my husbands wages we can't afford to pay our way in the world and for me to have a horse as well. So it gets right up my nose to find out that I'm paying via my taxes for someone else to have something that I'm having to go without.

[nia2311]

Cayo - £96 a week is the statutory wage for a young person aged 16-18 on an Apprenticeship. It has been that way for a long time. It was around £90 when I left school 10yrs ago. It goes up a bit in the 19-24 age category. The minimum wage does not apply to Apprenticeships, unless you are over the age of 24.

I am sure people on here who are employers would agree with me - if Min. wage DID apply to Apprencticeships, then there would be no Apprenticeships. Employers cannot afford to pay Min. wage for Apprentices and allow time off to go to college etc.

I understand £96 a week isn't a lot of money, but it is not designed to be a living wage. How many A-Level students live away from their parents? Hardly any. So the idea is for Apprentices to do the same - stay with their parents until they are 18. The wage is not supposed to support housing, shopping etc. It simply cannot be afforded. Apprentices know what the wage is before they sign up to the 2yr course, so why so many drop out, citing lack of money, I don't know. It is clearly advertised in every College prospectus I have ever seen, and it is pointed out when they come in for interview - I know, as I have been involved with those interviews.

My step-dad (now 64) trained as an Apprentice Mechanical Engineer back in the 1960s. He was paid, equivalently, a lot less, and the duration of the Apprenticeship was 6 years. He has always had good, well paid work available to him as a consequence of his training, but you have to stomach the first few years of low pay and tough graft.

That's the bit a lot of young people cannot seem to grasp - you WILL have to make the tea, you WILL have to sweep the floor, you WILL have to go to the butty van etc. Its part of being the junior member of staff in ANY job, not just in construction, or engineering. I have been the tea-maker and butty-van gopher in my early jobs, and they were what you would call "graduate" jobs. Its part and parcel of The System of Life. You start at the bottom, you work your way up, and in 10 years time, you sit on the Important Chair and ask for a ham salad butty for your lunch......

[nia2311]

Jun 26, 2012 5:37:55 GMT nici said:

Nia I agree with you on this. My niece fell pregnant during her A level year, and was "written off" - what a shame she had so much potential, now she'll end up working in Woollies, etc.

What no one bet on were her determination primarily, the support of her parents (my sister and BIL) and the support of her boyfriend. They had planned to study at the same university, so he switched to a 4 year course and she took a gap year to have the baby. She lived with her parents for that year, then when the baby was a year old, they went off to Uni together, my niece in her first year, her b/f in his second. They shared family accommodation and the baby went with them, with a place at the creche. My sister had the baby at crucial exam times, otherwise they looked after her between them. My niece graduated with a first class honours degree in education, and has been teaching for several years. Her b/f got a good degree too and works in social care.

None of the professional advisers recommended her career approach - she was offered the easy options of childcare, hairdressing etc. as there's no way she would be able to manage a degree. She proved them very wrong

See, thats what REALLY annoys me. The careers people and a lot of teachers assume that pregnant teenager = not academic. I am sure a lot aren't, but conversely, a lot ARE.

No, it isn't easy doing 5 A-Levels and a degree when you have a small child, but it is do-able. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I went out in the entire 3yrs of my degree. I had no social life. My only friend from Uni is also a parent (she was married and did it all the right way!). We met through the children and helped each other with looking after them in school hols etc.

My son came to a lot of lectures when he was on half term, as we did not have holiday. It certainly hasn't done him any harm, and he is eager to go to Uni himself because he wants to be an astrophysicist like Brian Cox ;D

My school were immensely supportive - they knew me, and my aspirations, and in fact I was told they expected me to continue with my original plan!! Which I did.

As I said before, teenage pregnancy has happened for eons (one of my Dad's friends got pregnant in the 1950s) and it will continue to happen. You can throw free condoms around all you like, but you won't ever remove the issue. So, seeing as we accept the issue will always be there, why not encourage and support proper, academic education for teenage parents, to equip them with the necessary skills to work and NOT sit on benefits ad nauseum? Subsidised nursery places are needed - I received a grant to help with nursery costs from my local council, but I have more than repaid it in my council tax, income tax, NI and the voluntary work I put into my community.

[sageandonion]

I so don't agree with that. We are to accept the unacceptable and then those that do not do the unacceptable accept it and go to work to pay for it. Those that do not have children irresponsibly pay more tax to subsidise those who do with nursery places.

If we were not paying one penny for people to have children to look to us to support, people might just stop having them.

We are tax payers in my household. My daughter cannot afford to move out. I would love a grandchild,but my daughter doing the right thing cannot afford a child or offer a home or pay for childcare. Nevertheless she is paying for others to have them.

You must understand why we don't want to pay for your child care as well as your housing benefit and your child benefit and your job seekers and all the rest of it.

[nia2311]

Jun 26, 2012 11:13:35 GMT said:

I so don't agree with that. We are to accept the unacceptable and then those that do not do the unacceptable accept it and go to work to pay for it. Those that do not have children irresponsibly pay more tax to subsidise those who do with nursery places.

If we were not paying one penny for people to have children to look to us to support, people might just stop having them.

S&O, unfortunately teen pregnancy has been a reality since goodness knows when, just in the past, the children were removed from their teenage parents and put in children's homes. I know, as that is what happened to my Dad's friend in the 1950s. The cost of keeping her son in a children's home was enormous, as was the cost of the adoption process when he was finally adopted as an older child. The Government then paid for his adoptive family to emigrate to Canada. I frankly believe it is worth a few subsidised nursery places to ensure young parents get jobs and do not see benefits as a lifestyle option.

I repeat - I have never received state benefits other than child benefit. We receive tax credits on our income.

I did get a childcare grant when I was studying for my A-Levels, funded through a local council scheme. It was worth £2000 a year and I got it in my second year of A-Level only. I have MORE than repaid that money, as I have worked since finishing my A-Levels. I worked whilst at Uni, as well as having a child. I have paid work, and I do voluntary work as a school Governor and as a telephone advisor for a charity. I cannot see how a £2000 grant is a worse option than throwing housing benefit and other benefits at people.

Even if the benefits system was totally removed and not a penny was made available, there would still be teenage parents. So, why not make sure they have a proper education? A proper education, such as the one I received, equips you to work and support yourself, which is what I have done.

[nia2311]

Jun 26, 2012 11:13:35 GMT said:

We are tax payers in my household. My daughter cannot afford to move out. I would love a grandchild,but my daughter doing the right thing cannot afford a child or offer a home or pay for childcare. Nevertheless she is paying for others to have them.

You must understand why we don't want to pay for your child care as well as your housing benefit and your child benefit and your job seekers and all the rest of it.

Okay - never received housing benefit, or job seekers, or the rest of it. I have received Child Benefit like YOU and every other parent in the entire country.

We are tax payers also, and have been since age 18. We are also subsidising the lazy lot. BUT I do not begrudge some of my taxes to provide some subsidised nursery places if it means people end up in work, and not on benefits.

I own my own home, which I pay the mortgage for out of the combined income that comes into this house. No-one pays any bills for us, nor any taxes for us. We pay it all ourselves, and maybe that is thanks to a £2000 childcare grant back in 2003?

[passing judgement]

Jun 26, 2012 11:30:05 GMT nia2311 said:

Jun 26, 2012 11:13:35 GMT said:

We are tax payers in my household. My daughter cannot afford to move out. I would love a grandchild,but my daughter doing the right thing cannot afford a child or offer a home or pay for childcare. Nevertheless she is paying for others to have them.

You must understand why we don't want to pay for your child care as well as your housing benefit and your child benefit and your job seekers and all the rest of it.

Okay - never received housing benefit, or job seekers, or the rest of it. I have received Child Benefit like YOU and every other parent in the entire country.

We are tax payers also, and have been since age 18. We are also subsidising the lazy lot. BUT I do not begrudge some of my taxes to provide some subsidised nursery places if it means people end up in work, and not on benefits.

I own my own home, which I pay the mortgage for out of the combined income that comes into this house. No-one pays any bills for us, nor any taxes for us. We pay it all ourselves, and maybe that is thanks to a £2000 childcare grant back in 2003?

Well said Nia. Sage&Onion, never received child benefit then? Of course you did, even millionaires receive this payment, which i happen to think is wrong. So we could suggest, you too are/were paying for your ponies to eat out of government money? Do you, Sage&Onion have the same views, if a planned child loses one of their parents? The family already has beloved ponies? One parent left on their own to cope? Frankly i find your attitude shameful, get off your high horse and count your lucky stars, you haven't dealt with such hardship.

Nia, well done to you.

[fruity]

Jun 25, 2012 17:52:19 GMT nia2311 said:

Jun 25, 2012 17:31:39 GMT Milliesmum said:

How about taking advantage of the free contraception on offer (that those of us in work are paying for by the way), and not getting pregnant in the first place unless you are in a position both fianancially and emotionally to bring up a child properly?? OK so I appreciate circumstances can change, but by and large people don't think long term before having unprotected sex!

Sometimes, 16yos DO use the free condoms on offer. My son is a product of a defective one - it wasn't an obvious defect, or else I'd have gone for the morning after pill ;D.

I couldn't abide the idea of abortion personally, so felt continuing with the pregnancy was my only option. My family supported me with this.

I don't fit any of the teenage parent stereotypes. I was 7 months pregnant when I sat my GCSEs in which I got all A*s. I then took 1/2 a term off A-Level study, returning to complete 5 A Levels while my son was a baby. I then took a Gap Year to gain work experience and save some money, heading to Uni when my son was 3. I also left home at this point and have lived with my now-husband ever since. I have a degree in Microbiology, which I finished when my son was 6, and I have a Masters level teaching qualification. I have always worked, including during my degree.

But no-one puts Daily Mail headlines screaming "teenage parents gains work experience placement with large national brewery," or "teenage parents gets 5 A-Levels and an offer to go to Cambridge."

There's plenty more like me, just we don't get the time of day, we get lumped in with all the scroungers and wastrels and are accused of drinking away our child benefit.....

You try getting on a public service bus, wearing the school uniform of a well respected local Church secondary school, whilst evidently 7-months pregnant. People say some cruel things to people they do not know!!

well blow me! - you little cracker!

Bl**dy well done

[sink estates]

mumwithapony, there are often times I have disagreed with your postings but your post - the last on page 2, says it all exactly correct to a T!!
Nia you are in the minority and well done for what you have achieved, but there are many others who 'cant be ar s ed!
finally Im afraid I am very old fashioned in my view that there is absolutely no excuse for accidental teenage pregnancy. There are plenty of realiable methods of contraception that just need to be used! I find this really frustrating. Years ago I had a mad Idea that my perfect job would be to go around secondary schools armed with a case of all contraceptives and educate young people about the myths about contraception and pregnacy aviodance! There is still too much hush hush thinking teens dont get up to s e x and we have to accept they do and I agree educating young people has been lacking. In my day 'Just Seventeen' magazine was the most we had!!
I will say though, that I managed to avoid getting pregnant with various means for over 25 years maybe because I have always known that it would ruin my life as it is now. Other people seem to think its a breeze. Call me selfish but like ponies theres enough unwanted children already, I love kids - just other peoples!!

[sageandonion]

I am talking about the benefit system in general, not one specific person. I think we will find that those who receive benefits long term will support them. Of course there are those who have paid in and then unfortunately have become permanently disabled or sick and this is what the benefit system is for. However, to go from school onto benefits, receive paid for accommodation, get pregnant and on and on is not what the system is for.

Shamefully I received child benefit for ONE child and I could have done without it having gone back to work when that child was three weeks old.

The problem is a lot of people in this country on benefit find people like myself shameful and these are the same people my hardworking family is subsidising.

Thankfully the Government is about to change things.

[Erinx]

Well do you know what sageandonion you support me! I'd give anything to have my daughter healthy but that's not the case

[nia2311]

But I shouldn't be in the minority. I think thats really sad, and part of the problem is society attitude. You are not expected to finish academic education, go to Uni and get a good job. Why not?!

[nia2311]

Jun 26, 2012 12:22:18 GMT @Erinx said:

Well do you know what sageandonion you support me! I'd give anything to have my daughter healthy but that's not the case

Erinx - you are NOT a scrounger. You are an example of why we have a benefits system, as you have to care for a disabled child. That is what it is for.

It is NOT for retiring at age 16, refusing all offers of apprenticeships or work, and then claiming you have a bad back at 23 having strained it lifting your new LCD TV into the living room. I am quite happy for my taxes to support your family, as you need it. I am not happy to support my next door neighbour who is currently having a beer after mowing his lawn. He has a bad back too

[sometime]

Never been on benefit but are you suggesting that the children are allowed to starve or be homeless even if it is no fault of theirs. It is not the kids involved in all this perpetuated benefit fraud it is the adults the kids should be protected fed and housed. Their parents should be made to work if there is a job available and perhaps people would feel mildly better if benefits were paid in tokens so they could only be exchanged for food, housing and essentials not f*gs and booze but then you get into a mine field of nanny state and abuse of the token system. I would love to see every child a wanted one loved and cherished and provided for I would also love to see every parent with the pride of having a job and a reason to live but that is cloud cuckoo land and we need practical and sensible options to make sure every child has a start in life whether they were an accident or not.
Perhaps the myth of houses for all teenage pregnant girls would be expunged if they were encouraged to stay with parents and family wherever possible and only granted a home once all avenues had been exhausted. We still need the welfare state to support those in real need whether temporary or permanent and there should be no stigma or difficulty attached to that but while the public services are being cut and there are fewer and fewer people to handle the crisis and investigate the fraud there will be abuse and cheating within the system.
It is not the kids fault It is the adult either the adult involved with not providing proper education and care of their teenagers or the adult involved in bringing unwanted children into the world from wherever they come

[amumwithapony]

Perhaps though by removing the 'cash' benefit system some of these children who DO need protecting will be better off? If perhaps 70% of the income into a non working house was in food vouchers and clothes vouchers and gas/electricity payments?

The children would probably eat better, and also grow up with the parents on benefits unable to afford the latest TV, or Sky or new mobiles and laptops as they are no longer cash rich, so the children aspire to more.

The biggest problem is breaking the chain. My Grandad worked, my step dad and mum worked so I work. I have 4 sisters and a brother. All apart from one sister who has a young baby and 3 older children work. The sister that doesn't is helped a little with tax credits BUT her partner works long, hard hours to pull in what he can.

Yet on an estate around the corner from me the majority of families don't work. A woman I know from school was proud to announce shes going to be a grandma in a couple of months. Shes 36 years old and already a granny Her mum had her young (17 I think) she had her eldest daughter at 16 and now her daughter is pregnant. At 16. All on benefits, not a job between them.

Its this sort of mentalality that gets peoples backs up. We've waited 4 years to have another baby. Because it was the right thing to do, both financially and emotionally. But now we are trying and have been for a while and nothing seems to be happening. A different issue I know but I'm 35 this year. I could have missed my chance at another child to wait until finacially I could afford one, and emotionally to make sure I was with the right person and could offer that child a stable, loving home.

Whilst up the road a 16 year old follows the path her mother and grandmother took and now will expect her and the child to be supported.

I may need to pay for IVF at some point. Do you think that the system we have in place will allow for me to claim some of mine and my husbands contributions if the first free cycle doesn't work so I can have the pleasure of a larger family?

[chalky284]

This is getting to be quite a hot topic! I think what annoys people is the abuse of the system, the whole families who can't be bothered to work because they get a house, money in their pocket, free healthcare including dentists. the foreigners who come here seeking 'asylum' and get their life on a plate, those that come from abroad and use our healthcare system costing thousands upon thousands.
Yes it happens and I find it really frustrating, the welfare state was set up to support thise in hardship to help them get out of it. I don't think anyone on here is pleased to be on benefits, but certainly glad they are available! And thank god they are, we live in a fabulous country that is the envy of many. Thats why they flock here!!!
People who genuinely need benefits to help them out of poverty and into work, or to support illness etc are never going to be begrudged that opportunity. I don't believe S&O is against those who need benefits, if they genuinely need them rather than just abusing the system, either.
The people who pay for it are sick of seeing those who can't be bothered to work, and are now starting to speak out and for once not being attacked for it!!

[passing judgement]

Sageandonion has just about slagged off every single person who receives tax credits or child benefit or both and keeps ponies - hands up horse gossipers who receives any of those things and has ponies?

I do. I work. I keep ponies. Therefore i am bad. I will live. I am entitled to it, therefore i shall spend it how i see fit.

[sageandonion]

Passing Judgement is the perfect name for you guest.

[emma3870]

Nia I think you have done amazing to do what you have done with a young baby. I have no gripe with young people like you and sure no one else does. What gets my back up is the ones who purposely go out and get rprgenant to get what they class as theirs.

If these kids can't get jobs then why not go out and work in a charity shop or other voluntary work? I will encourage my kids to do that of they can't get a job as at least it shows in their CV that they are prepared to get out there and do something rather than sit there and drink/smoke off the hard work of others