|
|
Post by Guestless on Dec 19, 2012 11:50:45 GMT
I've read about half of this and am beginning to lose the will to live! Can ANYONE give an authoritative and succinct answers to the following. 1 if the sale of the office proceeds are to be 'ring fenced' that presumes ALL of the money, why was it sold if not to pay off debts. 2 If wetherbys are issuing passports/maintaining stud book and grandstand media are running the summer champs and one has native ponies not 'riding' ponies, what will NPS offer? And why should I continue to subscribe to NPS? Am happy to o so if someone explains 3. Will it be sufficient to be a member of the showing register toenter HOYS qualifiers? Thanks in anticipation. I would imagine it would be best for you to address these questions directly to NPS - maybe through their Facebook page?  |
|
|
|
Post by girly on Dec 19, 2012 12:06:50 GMT
I've read about half of this and am beginning to lose the will to live! Can ANYONE give an authoritative and succinct answers to the following. 1 if the sale of the office proceeds are to be 'ring fenced' that presumes ALL of the money, why was it sold if not to pay off debts. 2 If wetherbys are issuing passports/maintaining stud book and grandstand media are running the summer champs and one has native ponies not 'riding' ponies, what will NPS offer? And why should I continue to subscribe to NPS? Am happy to o so if someone explains 3. Will it be sufficient to be a member of the showing register toenter HOYS qualifiers? My answers below are what I understand after having attended the meeting. 1 They are hoping to move the offices to the Midlands and I think the offices were sold because they had an offer that matched the highest of the valuations that they had. Changes and hard cost cutting decisions needed to be made to give the society a chance to regroup and then move on. 2 Wetherbys are going to be responsible for the data entry and printing of the passports but overall control of the stud book will remain with the NPS Grandstand Media will be acting as a secretary for the NPS for show entries and membership. My reason for wanting to continue to support the NPS is that it does so much to promote our ponies and their range of showing classes encourages all from the grass roots upwards. |
|
gh
Full Member
Posts: 493
|
Post by gh on Dec 19, 2012 12:41:58 GMT
I've read about half of this and am beginning to lose the will to live! Can ANYONE give an authoritative and succinct answers to the following. 1 if the sale of the office proceeds are to be 'ring fenced' that presumes ALL of the money, why was it sold if not to pay off debts. 2 If wetherbys are issuing passports/maintaining stud book and grandstand media are running the summer champs and one has native ponies not 'riding' ponies, what will NPS offer? And why should I continue to subscribe to NPS? Am happy to o so if someone explains 3. Will it be sufficient to be a member of the showing register toenter HOYS qualifiers? My answers below are what I understand after having attended the meeting. 1 They are hoping to move the offices to the Midlands and I think the offices were sold because they had an offer that matched the highest of the valuations that they had. Changes and hard cost cutting decisions needed to be made to give the society a chance to regroup and then move on. 2 Wetherbys are going to be responsible for the data entry and printing of the passports but overall control of the stud book will remain with the NPS Grandstand Media will be acting as a secretary for the NPS for show entries and membership. My reason for wanting to continue to support the NPS is that it does so much to promote our ponies and their range of showing classes encourages all from the grass roots upwards. hi, answer 1 does not answer the question. if its viableto move admin elsewhere, what exactly wll they be administrating? answer 2, why arent the new adnministrators reg ponies and not wetherbys, they won't be doing it for free? My breed society promotes my breed. do i need to be a member to enter hoys qualifiers? i am happy to subscribe if i can see benefits. |
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Dec 19, 2012 13:37:11 GMT
gh .. as i understand it to be, for a £20 fee you can join The Showing Register and this will make you eligible to enter PONIES for Hoys qualifiers (including m&m's, whps, show ponies, sh ponies)
|
|
|
|
Post by piper on Dec 19, 2012 14:30:24 GMT
I think, girly was spot on with her answers. NPS will regroup and resume control once everything is sorted out, with hopefully a more business like approach to running the society. The way I understood it was that the outsourcing is a temporary solution and the long term plan is to provide a Midlands based office or point of contact. I will certainly be renewing my membership, for all that they have given me over the years,I am happy to give them a chance.
|
|
gh
Full Member
Posts: 493
|
Post by gh on Dec 19, 2012 15:44:11 GMT
I think, girly was spot on with her answers. NPS will regroup and resume control once everything is sorted out, with hopefully a more business like approach to running the society. The way I understood it was that the outsourcing is a temporary solution and the long term plan is to provide a Midlands based office or point of contact. I will certainly be renewing my membership, for all that they have given me over the years,I am happy to give them a chance. and i will renew, but not full showing membership. just a token gesture of support. thanks bgmama and piper for info. |
|
jonp
Junior Member
Posts: 170
|
Post by jonp on Dec 19, 2012 19:21:20 GMT
I believe that much is being missed here. All the major Societies have worked very hard over the years to establish their own range of classes at both HOYS, The RIHS and Olympia. It is the knowledge and contacts within the Societies that has produced the status quo. The problems, however are now threefold:
1) Not enough thought was put into what would happen to each Society Championship Class when it was eventually overshadowed by a HOYS/RI variant.
2) What would happen if the "Qualifying Classes" were ever to be re-allocated (it has always been thought this would not happen because each Society introduced their own classes and originally found the sponsors)
3) What would happen if someone came in and merely undersold their "Qualification Product"
We are on the verge of all three things happening. We live in a Society where Brand Image is everything and there is not a cohesive image portrayed by any of our Societies. TSR has come in and very cleverly shown them how to do the job. but their product line is very limited and they are getting all their publicity by merely doing a TK Max on existing branded products.
As sponsor of the NPS/PRP M&M at RIHS I will certainly continue to support them. The classes were their idea and the execution and judging their responsibility. PRP Rescue invented horsebox breakdown schemes nearly thirty years ago. Sure there are now cheaper (IMO not so good alternatives), but we constantly fight to keep our brand image in the public eye. It is not that difficult, look at Equifest we just constantly ask our public what they want and then supply it. Watch and learn Societies, watch and learn.
|
|
|
|
Post by piper on Dec 19, 2012 19:43:51 GMT
Huge amount of sense jonp
|
|
|
|
Post by the showing register on Dec 19, 2012 20:38:16 GMT
We especially like the bit about TK MAX ! The MasterClass could be counted as a new product ? We tend to look on ourselves like a budget airline, low cost, no frills and looking for landing slots!
Enough of this frivolity I will be severely reprimanded it must be the Christmas spirit
Wendy
|
|
|
|
Post by billybub on Dec 20, 2012 9:15:25 GMT
The Members at least now know where the funds are going , if this Interim employee is earning £40,000 a year PLUS expenses for a 3 day week. I hope that the stud book was put out to tender as the afore said interim employee has had close connections with Wetherbys. It would not look good if not, does anyone know if that in fact happened?
|
|
|
|
Post by talisker on Dec 20, 2012 9:37:43 GMT
i think we all need to support the nps, if we dont support it we are sure to loose it and what a shame that would be. I have just send off my renewed membership.
|
|
|
|
Post by Guestless on Dec 20, 2012 10:17:02 GMT
The Members at least now know where the funds are going , if this Interim employee is earning £40,000 a year PLUS expenses for a 3 day week. I hope that the stud book was put out to tender as the afore said interim employee has had close connections with Wetherbys. It would not look good if not, does anyone know if that in fact happened? I wouldn't mind the level of salary if progress was being made, but if the resolutions put forward were his idea then I can't say I support the post. Was it advertised or was he just in the right place at the right time? |
|
|
|
Post by CarolineNelson on Dec 20, 2012 11:12:11 GMT
The NPS used to be a Riding Pony Studbook and promote British riding ponies it decided to put more of its efforts in the native breeds when PUK became so successful with the ridden M and M especially the minis. Now it has the situation where it has lost Olympia to another Society( that was also set up to champion the ridden pony) and so it is a classic case of diversification that has not worked out. The Mountain and Moorland breed societies are the people that promote their own breeds and members of these societies can enter at the specialist shows and enter HOYS Qualifiers. The Showing Register is a showing society but has come into the game with a very attractive package especially if you are just starting out - it seems hard to justify paying large membership fees if it is not necessary - but if the NPS went back to its core and promoted the BRP and its stud book this would only need a small office and staff it is all the other things that costs so much money to run especially as it is so hard to make a show break even. Caroline Nelson could tell us how it is I am sure To clarify :- 1) "the NPS used to be a Riding Pony Stud Book . . etc" USED TO BE? It is! The NPS was founded in 1893 with that aim - and (to precis) to improve the welfare and registration of ponies. so 2) "it decided to put more of it's efforts into the M&M's when P(UK) became so successful with the ridden M&M's . . . etc"With all due respect to 'PaintedLady', that statement is absolute nonsense. Historically, the NPS gave administrative assistance and support to those Mountain and Moorland Breed Societies which needed such assistance (in fact, although in those days much more simplistically, in much the same way that Wetherbys will be providing database admin for the BRPSB until new, suitable office space is found. By 'historically', I mean around the time of the two World Wars and into the 1950's, after which the majority of Breed Societies were more able to handle their own registers. The NPS continued to - and still continues to, offer support, an 'umberella' if you wish, for the British Native Breeds. This particularly applied when Passports became mandatory and support was required at DEFRA meetings etc. PaintedLady's reference to P(UK) is quite extrordinary as P(UK) - a Showing Society, was formed from disbanding of the "Ponies of Britain Club" upon the death in the late 1970's of it's founder, Mrs Glenda Spooner, who founded the PoB in the early 1950's as a predominantly welfare and educational 'club'. I will not enter into the merits or otherwise of the attributes of such as - the new The Showing Register but I will say one thing and I say it from the heart. Established Equine breed and Showing Societies are being 'leeched' for lack of a better term, by so many new, glitzy shows and organisations wich pop up. This is a mirror of the High Street butcher or the good old corner newsagent being overshadowed by the shiny new Supermarket which is built on the periphery of town and which lays on curtesy buses for it's shoppers. New broom sweeps clean and all that. Moving swiftly on, it is so heartening to hear that loyal Sponsors such as JonP (above) will continue to support the NPS and it is heartening to hear unbiased, well expressed views from the meeting as Girly and Piper have done here. Mistakes were made in the last couple of years or so with the NPS's admin. That is clear. But, it is past. Let those who are trying to resolve the situation get on with doing it and let the dust settle. I am a Life member but if I wasn't, I would definately be renewing my annual membership to support the Society which both my late mother and I served diligently and with passion. |
|
|
|
Post by holmedown on Dec 20, 2012 11:49:31 GMT
Well said Caroline Nelson, couldnt agree more.
|
|
|
|
Post by piper on Dec 20, 2012 13:04:45 GMT
As ever Caroline Nelson tells it like it is. I know that the NPS will reclaim it's trusted position as champion of the BRP and all our native breeds.
|
|
paul
Junior Member
Posts: 88
|
Post by paul on Dec 20, 2012 13:26:12 GMT
Well said Caroline Nelson!  |
|
|
|
Post by foxylady on Dec 20, 2012 14:09:42 GMT
I am a longtime supporter of NPS but to be frank I think the writing is on the wall how they were able to get themselves in this mess as a registered charity is beyond me , but hindsight is a wonderful thing .
It would make complete sense to me if the BSPS took over the stud book unpopular as that might be, as the main society offering classes for riding ponies it surely makes sense ( although they may not wish to do so ) They number of riding ponies being bred must be in decline the classes are poor compared to what they were 10/15 years ago they no longer offer value for money compared to the MM pony .
NPS have become ignorant of late of what their members/customers needs are and anyone who has worked in retail will know that the" customer is always right " If they are to survive and to be honest I not sure if they can or if they should , they need to address a few home truths . They have become a society that seems to reward the efforts of a few and not the majority !!! the same old faces time and again . They need to recruit young judges and do away with some of the others they have worked hard and have given alot but their time is past . The home produced classes need to be expanded so that members feel that they can have a fair crack of the whip and they need to remember that alot of their members live north of Birmingham , believe me we no longer walk around in clogs and cloth caps !!! everything is always centred done south .
Competition is good complancecy sp? is not change is in the air I have said it before and will say it again there is not the money available anymore to support numerous societies people are becoming alot more careful about where they spend there hard earned cash . Value for money is going to be the name of the game why do you think GM are trying to cut out the middle man !!! who bought Willingdon House ? was that question asked at the EGM it might be interesting to know .
|
|
|
|
Post by CarolineNelson on Dec 20, 2012 21:57:19 GMT
I am a longtime supporter of NPS but to be frank I think the writing is on the wall how they were able to get themselves in this mess as a registered charity is beyond me , but hindsight is a wonderful thing . It would make complete sense to me if the BSPS took over the stud book unpopular as that might be, as the main society offering classes for riding ponies it surely makes sense ( although they may not wish to do so ) They number of riding ponies being bred must be in decline the classes are poor compared to what they were 10/15 years ago they no longer offer value for money compared to the MM pony . NPS have become ignorant of late of what their members/customers needs are and anyone who has worked in retail will know that the" customer is always right " If they are to survive and to be honest I not sure if they can or if they should , they need to address a few home truths . They have become a society that seems to reward the efforts of a few and not the majority !!! the same old faces time and again . They need to recruit young judges and do away with some of the others they have worked hard and have given alot but their time is past . The home produced classes need to be expanded so that members feel that they can have a fair crack of the whip and they need to remember that alot of their members live north of Birmingham , believe me we no longer walk around in clogs and cloth caps !!! everything is always centred done south . Competition is good complancecy sp? is not change is in the air I have said it before and will say it again there is not the money available anymore to support numerous societies people are becoming alot more careful about where they spend there hard earned cash . Value for money is going to be the name of the game why do you think GM are trying to cut out the middle man !!! who bought Willingdon House ? was that question asked at the EGM it might be interesting to know . Why on earth would the BSPS wish to "take over the [BRP] Stud Book"? The BSPS, (as do other purely showing societies) profits greatly from the emergance of the Ridden M&M. In the BSPS, this is known as the "Heritage" Ridden M&M pony. Supply and demand. Supply will strengthen and weaken as, conversely, demand weakens and strengthens. Still with me? Foxylady, you have much to say on the recent topic of the NPS. Perhaps this might now become positive? I do hope so. |
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Dec 20, 2012 22:06:12 GMT
A most interesting read, Jonp, Caroline Nelson and foxylady and whilst i respect all your views, experience tells me that Equifest ticks every box because it LISTENS, ACTIONS and MODERNISES in a POLITE and FRIENDLY MANNER .. nothing is too much trouble ... and the proof is in the pudding, it is now the biggest horse show in the UK ... so many people have jumped ship from NPS, BSPS, PUK to Equifest and now with The Showing Register enabling competitors to compete in Hoys classes for £20 membership where is the need to join the 'old' societies if you are not bothered about competing at their championship shows, or, more likely with most, unable to afford to .. the majority of us holding up these societies are every day people with limited incomes and unable to trek around every show/society in the country
|
|
|
|
Post by Philippa on Dec 20, 2012 22:13:11 GMT
We especially like the bit about TK MAX ! The MasterClass could be counted as a new product ? We tend to look on ourselves like a budget airline, low cost, no frills and looking for landing slots! Enough of this frivolity I will be severely reprimanded it must be the Christmas spirit Wendy I dont think this 'no frills' 'budget airline' strapline sells you to anyone!! Be careful what you wish for. |
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Dec 20, 2012 22:25:37 GMT
We especially like the bit about TK MAX ! The MasterClass could be counted as a new product ? We tend to look on ourselves like a budget airline, low cost, no frills and looking for landing slots! Enough of this frivolity I will be severely reprimanded it must be the Christmas spirit Wendy I dont think this 'no frills' 'budget airline' strapline sells you to anyone!! Be careful what you wish for. oo-er! lost your sense of humour philippa? |
|
|
|
Post by girly on Dec 20, 2012 23:19:25 GMT
From a personal point of view the NPS has given me a framework to bring on young ponies and young jockeys. We have progressed from novice lead rein, flat riddens and workers with our M&Ms to competing at the RI and HOYS. At each stage we have had classes at relatively local shows with judges who have been trained and assessed. My breed society has been helped and supported over the years by the NPS. I will continue to support them as they support us.
Equifest is a brilliant concept and very well run but has to rely on judges trained by other societies and does not offer the network of shows with classes from novice to open.
The Showing Register might be the answer if you only have one pony and only compete only in HOYS classe butwould not suit me.
|
|
|
|
Post by the showing register on Dec 21, 2012 5:31:53 GMT
Hi
The budget airline bit was an attempt at light hearted banter ! In reply to girly she can compete in our rider championship classes without being a member and most classes are free of any restrictions. We quite agree with the rest of her post.
Wendy
|
|
|
|
Post by gauntlet on Dec 21, 2012 16:22:23 GMT
So many comments from those who have only been around for a very short time!! Ponies UK is relatively new compared to the NPS and the Breed Societies. Things will get back on track when people are working together to promote what the Society is all about instead of promoting personal ego's! Many years ago the society was run by a group of knowledgeable individuals who wanted to develop a society that would strive to develop the British Riding Pony..... and they did! Today so many of the hierarchy in many of these "Societies" haven't bred, exhibited or produced a decent pony....... but they appear to be able to talk the talk!! Australia seem to have done really well developing the British Riding Pony....... obviously a group of people over there more intent on promoting their ponies rather than themselves. There are some committed and extremely capable people here but they are in the minority! The showing societies provide shows that are the shop window for the breeders. Economics are a factor and low costs are a bonus....... they do not pretend to be anything they not! NPS and the breed societies are the keepers of the stud books and the whole breed registration process. Without them where would we be? Back to basics and back to the ethos that made them great!!
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Dec 21, 2012 16:46:45 GMT
Whatever we think ?clients ?customers ?users ?members - not sure how to address them - will vote with their feet and their purses. What worries me though if we lose the showing societies is the question of judge training more than anything, we are losing the knowledgeable and selfless people who ran these societies and judged at their classes and who will replace them?
You are so right gauntlet in that showing is the shop window for breeders, it always has been for me. After my breed society, I've always supported NPS, particularly their ridden competitions, Pictons for the novices and Olympia for the opens! And yes I know they don't run Olympia any more but I haven't had any out since it changed.
|
|
|
|
Post by helle on Dec 28, 2012 19:11:39 GMT
Is anyone on here interested in being nominated?  Nominations have to be in shortly ? |
|
|
|
Post by hs on Dec 30, 2012 19:35:16 GMT
I think not everyone is in a financial position to be able to support a society based on what it was like many years ago and not based on what it is offering now.
I don't think any society is going to make a difference to the "same faces" issue because we are in a recession and there are going to be a limited number of people who can afford to have ponies travelling the country contesting the qualfiers and to compete at the big championships can also be expensive if you are not local.
I do think the NPS has done some innovative things recently such as the dressage and the starter stakes and the insurance. If the showing shows could try and run the dressage qualifiers on the same days as the showing classes they may find they get more entries in both as people want to cut down on travelling costs and may choose to go to shows where there are plenty of things they can enter. I am not an NPS member because I am not into showing much now but I did a couple of NPS dressage classes and really enjoyed it, if the showing was on the same day as some dressage classes and I would do some of the showing classes whilst there. If the NPS also gave members discounts on all entry fees including the area shows or any showing running qualifiers that would also be an added incentive to join and it would benefit members at all levels.
I do understand it is always difficult when organisations are run by volunteers as the regional events will only be as good as the people there are available to run them, it is the same with the Riding Clubs who are also struggling to retain members in many areas.
I think sometimes these societies forget that not everyone has lots of money to flash about anymore including sponsors, and they cannot rely on those who have to prop them up.
BSJA, BD and BE also have a points system for horses and ponies and it makes it easy for buyers and sellers as it is easy to see what a horse has achieved. Perhaps NPS could introduce some points for ponies owned by members say 1 point if the pony wins an open class with more than 10 entries.
Without change NPS will remain to many non members as an organisation that is only worth joining if you are able to compete at the championships.
Slightly off topic but there is a great little book called "140 tips to help you recruit and retain more members" it has helped me in my work quite a bit - I work in membership for a trade organisation. It is only £5.99 and those running membership societies might find it useful.
However great the strategy the interim change consultant might put forward, it will only be sucessful if there are enough competant people to actually do the work he suggests!
|
|
sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
|
Post by sarahp on Dec 30, 2012 19:47:20 GMT
I don't know about the Area shows, but there has been a dressage qualifier at the Summer Chs for some years, and this year the Dressage Chs and Spring Show are the same w/e at Addington, on different days though I think. One difficulty could be timings as dressage competitors are used to having a starting time given in advance, whereas NPS showing tends to just run on taking as long as it takes.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigmama on Jan 16, 2013 11:05:52 GMT
Just read this on NPS website
'The National Pony Society in conjunction with The British Horse Society are holding a Pre-season Clinic/Workshop on 2nd/3rd March 2013'
ooh, interesting methinx til i click and find out it's in Hampshire ... many peeps here in the very strong showing area of the north feel that the NPS is run very much for the south and this backs it up (maybe this is where the NPS has gone wrong in the past?) .... please please please NPS will you consider the north of england when organising such events :/
|
|
|
|
Post by girly on Jan 16, 2013 11:26:32 GMT
Just read this on NPS website 'The National Pony Society in conjunction with The British Horse Society are holding a Pre-season Clinic/Workshop on 2nd/3rd March 2013' ooh, interesting methinx til i click and find out it's in Hampshire ... many peeps here in the very strong showing area of the north feel that the NPS is run very much for the south and this backs it up (maybe this is where the NPS has gone wrong in the past?) .... please please please NPS will you consider the north of england when organising such events :/ The NPS are in a no-win situation. Where ever they held an event people would moan it was to far for them to go. I would love to have gone but it is to far from me but up north would be even futher away. |
|
Nominations have to be in shortly