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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 3, 2017 14:08:03 GMT
As this is now published perhaps people could just calm down and read the facts. The horse that tested positive at NPS for a sedative did get stripped of its Cuddy qualification at Bucks County a few weeks later. The LR pony which had been given an antihistimane not a sedative or performance enhancing drug did get stripped of its HOYS qualification and 2nd pony at NPS I believe has been given the qualification. Perhaps before everyone starts pointing fingers and accusing people of wrong doing sometimes things are genuine mistakes particularly if it is not a sedative or perfomrance enhaning drug. Having just read the NPS report, and well done to NPS for a job well done. However, I'm wondering if it is a typing mistake, but one is banned till December 2018 and the other to December 2017? Anyone know why? I believe a petition should be set up and sent to all the Societies to uphold the ban across the board. Showing Register this could be something to get involved in, perhaps one of your surveys? It's time to make it clear to offenders that all societies will uphold the banning across the board. I do feel banning the offenders for life would be a good decision, regardless, they should know better; however, to ban ponies/horses for life would be somewhat unfair as the pony didn't ask to be doped.
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Post by honeypot on Oct 3, 2017 15:02:11 GMT
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Post by gillwales on Oct 3, 2017 16:45:25 GMT
I do feel banning the offenders for life would be a good decision, regardless, they should know better; however, to ban ponies/horses for life would be somewhat unfair as the pony didn't ask to be doped.[/quote]
The reason why a pony should be banned is to prevent anyone from making money out of it. Consider: if this was a F/R and had been doped and wins a lot of big shows, someone purchases it down the line as a schoolmaster/ mistress and a novice child is put on it and sent into a busy ring, it's parents thinking they have purchased; at great expense, a safe ride for their child, because it has been doped in the past and now isn't, could well react badly and could injury the child. The point is if a pony needs to be doped to be safe in the ring then it probably doesn't like showing and should not be there, if unsound and needs something to cover up that unsoundness then it is kinder to the pony not to be taken round to show after show. It does prevent someone exploiting the pony and making a lot of money out of it. The pony will not care about being banned for life, it will not know.
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Post by kateanne0 on Oct 3, 2017 18:28:00 GMT
I do feel banning the offenders for life would be a good decision, regardless, they should know better; however, to ban ponies/horses for life would be somewhat unfair as the pony didn't ask to be doped. The reason why a pony should be banned is to prevent anyone from making money out of it. Consider: if this was a F/R and had been doped and wins a lot of big shows, someone purchases it down the line as a schoolmaster/ mistress and a novice child is put on it and sent into a busy ring, it's parents thinking they have purchased; at great expense, a safe ride for their child, because it has been doped in the past and now isn't, could well react badly and could injury the child. The point is if a pony needs to be doped to be safe in the ring then it probably doesn't like showing and should not be there, if unsound and needs something to cover up that unsoundness then it is kinder to the pony not to be taken round to show after show. It does prevent someone exploiting the pony and making a lot of money out of it. The pony will not care about being banned for life, it will not know. [/quote] Well said gillwales
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doorshuthorsehasbolted
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Post by doorshuthorsehasbolted on Oct 4, 2017 11:36:51 GMT
Cetirizine will take the edge of pony and stop any head shaking/fussiness thus presenting the perfect still and steady head carriage that the lead-reins like at the moment. Much easier to explain away too! As for the ACP, they obviously needed it to get the performances out of it and thought it was worth the risk. Its a pity because he is a fabulous animal. Doping in showing is very common, the odds are always in your favour. There's the odds of winning, the odds of getting picked for testing, then the odds of the sample picking up.
Great that NPS have done this but I think the ban will only work as a deterrent if the societies get together and uphold across the board, and its got to be for a full season. A ban now until the Dec 17 isn't going to make much difference. The ban until Dec 18 is much better, but lots of other societies to show under. I also think - in some cases - the producers need to be banned too. Not relevant this time but in some cases, owners and ponies are being held to account when ponies are not on their yard. If producers faced a 1 year ban think of the income they would lose!
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Objection procedure
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Post by Objection procedure on Oct 4, 2017 11:52:11 GMT
Beautifully put!
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Post by gillwales on Oct 4, 2017 12:29:10 GMT
I do agree that all showing/ breed societies should uphold a ban if found by another society, but then I think there should only be one society representing all breeds and types, both showing and breeding. Bans should be for life unless there are grounds for a mix up when the ban should be for a year, yes producers should definitely be banned. The thing is those practicing doping, by whatever method, are putting lives at risk, this is not acceptable. The results in the ring to me are a secondary consideration; it might be the reason why people do this but the safety of those around the horse or pony are far more important.
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Post by specialsparkle3 on Oct 11, 2017 8:52:42 GMT
The ban on the horse preventing the producers from Showing in NPS classes will only serve one purpose , to prevent them from competing in the Ottergayle Championship . That is all .
These Producers were parading around HOYS without a single sign of embarrassment , competing in the Cuddy with another horse who had won under another society and a ridden horse which was Champion Quite simply, until ALL societies work together on the dope testing front , this awful practice will continue unabated . I do hope that this event will serve as the fstraw that breaks the camel’s back and , finally, something will be done across the board.
Interestingly, the last Race Horse yard to be caught using the same drugs as this 2 year old was subjected to , was barred from Racing ANY horse ,for 14 months !!
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Post by just reading on Oct 11, 2017 12:44:10 GMT
The press release says Ms Smith & Mr Pitt were suspended until 31st December 2018 from “competing in any NPS affiliated class or at any NPS Shows”, the ottergayle classes are affiliated classes and are held at loads of county shows and other shows in conjunction with BSHA classes and are also sometimes the feeder classes for the 'coveted' cuddy ticket
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Post by fatcob on Oct 11, 2017 13:08:11 GMT
Until the testing reveals how much of the banned substance was in the system I think lengthy and or lifetime bans are too harsh. I think there is a huge difference between doping for a competition and having a horse test positive because there is still some in their system from a few days before when maybe it required sedating for clipping etc.
I do agree that a blanket ban across all societies should apply. The ban should also apply to the rider/handler. That would also discourage "catch rides" where professionals sit on horses at the show as a one off. Most producers would therefore insist the horse being on their yard for at least 2 weeks to be sure the horse is clear.
It is very annoying to see these cheats continue to compete, win, go Supreme, appear on the cover of magazines, sponsors adverts and even the advertising for the "greatest horse show on earth" all within a short time of being found culpable / guilty / involved in horse doping.
ALL show societies should be putting their heads together and putting a halt to this - otherwise the legacy of showing on their watch will be that of a cheat's paradise.
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Post by wink wink on Oct 11, 2017 13:38:22 GMT
one of the societies had a picture of one of the banned people up on their stand ok its not their society that caught them but another and ok it was a different pony but still !!!!!! it needs to stop , there has to be a umbrella that ALL the societies pay into and have a couple of people NOT involved with any of the showing societies, to carry out the testing because at the moment ( i could be wrong) but the societies only test their classes ie if HOYS class they dont test
i wish HOYS would test, the vets are there and they have the isolation box
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Post by fatcob on Oct 11, 2017 14:35:56 GMT
wink wink - HOYS did carry out testing this year - at least one of the Maxi cobs was pulled.
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Post by Toaster NLI on Oct 11, 2017 15:20:17 GMT
I was really saddened to see a high placed childs pony at HOYS stood front legs splayed and its back end actually swaying in a bid to stay upright which luckily it did - I really hope that was pulled for testing
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Post by gillwales on Oct 11, 2017 15:33:52 GMT
I was really saddened to see a high placed childs pony at HOYS stood front legs splayed and its back end actually swaying in a bid to stay upright which luckily it did - I really hope that was pulled for testing So do I, do the parents not understand the risk they are putting their child in? If it fell over it could easily land on it's rider; and as we are talking about small children, the rider could be seriously injured.. is a bit of ribbon really worth the risk?
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Post by maxandpaddy on Oct 11, 2017 17:10:37 GMT
I'm baffled here...so you pay to send your horse/pony to a Producer THEY dope your horse/pony, you as the owner and the horse/pony get penalised/fined/banned too?
Maybe this on its own will have an effect, people will be more cautious who they send their horses/ponies to or even better maybe an increase in home produced entries
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Post by Sameoldsameold on Oct 11, 2017 18:21:44 GMT
Until the testing reveals how much of the banned substance was in the system I think lengthy and or lifetime bans are too harsh. I think there is a huge difference between doping for a competition and having a horse test positive because there is still some in their system from a few days before when maybe it required sedating for clipping etc. I do agree that a blanket ban across all societies should apply. The ban should also apply to the rider/handler. That would also discourage "catch rides" where professionals sit on horses at the show as a one off. Most producers would therefore insist the horse being on their yard for at least 2 weeks to be sure the horse is clear. It is very annoying to see these cheats continue to compete, win, go Supreme, appear on the cover of magazines, sponsors adverts and even the advertising for the "greatest horse show on earth" all within a short time of being found culpable / guilty / involved in horse doping. ALL show societies should be putting their heads together and putting a halt to this - otherwise the legacy of showing on their watch will be that of a cheat's paradise. Well said. Was it Bromide by any chance that was the substance of choice in the maxi cob that tested positive? Unless ALL showing societies now name and shame these cheats and put a stop to this I'm sorry to say this will be the demise of showing. No other sport would tolerate this level of bad practice/cheating
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Post by fatcob on Oct 12, 2017 17:47:09 GMT
sameoldsameol - I was not aware that a maxi cob had tested positive - when I say pulled I meant pulled for testing and knowing the owner/rider it will be clear.
I think it will be a few weeks before the results are known from HOYS testing
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Post by Sameoldsameold on Oct 12, 2017 19:24:53 GMT
sameoldsameol - I was not aware that a maxi cob had tested positive - when I say pulled I meant pulled for testing and knowing the owner/rider it will be clear. I think it will be a few weeks before the results are known from HOYS testing Apologies Fatcob I read your post incorrectly. Still good that random testing is being carried out but this needs to go across the board now to stamp on this problem.
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Post by highbid on Nov 5, 2017 11:04:11 GMT
According to hoys website 4 horses were tested and all were negative they are all named on the hoys website.
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Post by gillwales on Nov 5, 2017 14:20:04 GMT
According to hoys website 4 horses were tested and all were negative they are all named on the hoys website. Well that is good news
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Post by catkin on Nov 6, 2017 9:05:55 GMT
Very good news and whilst I too don't like the idea of a child being risked on a doped pony, often ponies there have a lot of work before they go into the ring so the pony in question might just have been tired. Also, it is extremely hot in the arena and some find this a bit overwhelming. I didn't see the pony in question, of course, but there might be alternative explanations.
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Post by Carrots&Mints on Nov 6, 2017 10:40:03 GMT
4 horses out of how many competing? sorry but that's a drop in the ocean? But glad to see all 4 were clean.
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Post by Pepper on Nov 20, 2017 18:23:58 GMT
What I’m curious about is why two competitors were stripped of their qualifier and unable to contest HOYS - amidst much publicity. But why another, whose positive test was hushed up, was able to contest? Surely a rule is a rule for all across the board? - and Grandstands policy should apply to all?
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Post by Anonia on Nov 21, 2017 15:18:49 GMT
What I’m curious about is why two competitors were stripped of their qualifier and unable to contest HOYS - amidst much publicity. But why another, whose positive test was hushed up, was able to contest? Surely a rule is a rule for all across the board? - and Grandstands policy should apply to all? Do you know what society tested it? because if they did not let HOYS know I bet HOYS weren't even aware!!!!
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Post by Pepper on Nov 21, 2017 20:22:01 GMT
Two horses contested hoys after positive tests. One was all over the press, big news early season and the other, yes I know and I’d hazard they knew too
Level playing field is that is wanted
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