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Post by skint on Dec 23, 2008 12:37:21 GMT
If you go with our local hunt = The Barlow in Derbyshire, they would be lucky to catch 10% of the scents that they find.
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Post by skint on Dec 23, 2008 12:39:23 GMT
I really do think that Celebrities like Noel Edmunds do a lot of good with their support. If you manage to get a copy Dun4u I would love a copy of it
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charliesmum
Newbie
A dog maybe a man's best friend but a horse makes a womans life complete xxxxx
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Post by charliesmum on Dec 23, 2008 13:04:19 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2008 13:56:40 GMT
Well here goes, and no-one shoot me down on this either. Fox hunting is a natural way of taking out the sick and injured fox cause if the fox is healthy there is no chance you'll catch it. Also hunting is also a natural way of maintaining the countryside the hegdes, keeps them short. Most hunts also offer great FREE services for the farmers if they let them hunt through there land, like properley dissposing of dead animals etc which is good as it means the farmer doesnt have dead poultry and doesnt have to fork out alot of money for the disposal of livestock. Anyone else agree? thank you for the above BUT can i also ask if this is the case. then why , the day before the hunt, the foxes dens are ruined ( and foxes caught if at all poss)?? so they cant run underground and ' spoil the chase', and also foxes caught in live traps are released in the area of the hunt early in the morning before it all kicks off. non of these foxes are injured or sick and if they were they could kill them quickly while they have them captive, this behaviour is not pest control. this is trapping a wild animal deliberately so it can be chased and killed for fun. before anyone tries to tell me this is not done, it is ( or was pre ban, i don't know now) it was common practice. i knew who held the foxes and would go and see them occasionally, it is not often you see a live fox close up
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Post by Jackerjen on Dec 23, 2008 14:19:28 GMT
B*LLOCKS TO BROWN
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sarahp
Happy to help
Posts: 9,510
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Post by sarahp on Dec 23, 2008 15:06:01 GMT
dun4u - foxmange is currently rife in this area and someone I know who lives in a suburban environment but keeps chickens in his garden has live trapped and then shot 10 foxes since october in his garden, currently after No11. I long ago stopped keeping chickens because of the fox problem and we frequently see them in broad daylight in our fields pottering about - after worms I think. Also that foxes around an institution both rummage through the bins and take the chickens, you must admire the adaptability!
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 23, 2008 15:19:48 GMT
I dont think any one would be in agreement with that kind of goings on Welshcob, i would be very disapointed if my local hunt did any of that. The worst thing about the ban is that in some areas foxes are being wiped out by over zealous shooting/snaring/piosoning. The trouble is there is no set season on foxes, at least hunting has a set season, so no pregnant vixens are killed/or little cubs. And by the way a pregnant vixen gives off no scent, hence they were never hunted any way. Soon foxes will only exsit in towns and cities, there was a marksman in the paper one year saying he shoots 50 plus aday!!!! Agree with that any antis on here do you???
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 23, 2008 15:26:31 GMT
Oh i nearly forgot the vet i used to work for told me a story once about a farmer client, his chickens AND LAMBS yes LAMBS were being taken by one fox, in desperation he called out the local hunt, they came with one couple of hounds and a rifle. When they got the fox it was a sight to turn the strongest of stomachs. It had been shot and one of its back legs was hanging off, it was alive with maggots eating its back end/leg. This is the problem with shooting, how many are maimed in this way? The only food it could manage was penned chickens and tiny newborn lambs oh and it was a pregnant vixen.
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Post by pattendown on Dec 23, 2008 16:10:19 GMT
i was under the impression that foxes were predirors ive watched them catch and kill rabbits and it doesnt make sence for a preditor to kill alll its food source ,its cats and dogs do more damage if a dog gets in woith sheep it will kill indiscriminatly do we go out and hunt dogs within an inch of its life with a packi of dogs no ,there is no need to do such awfull things so many foxes are killed on the road and we cant complain about what an animal does if we do the same thing arnt we supposed to be more sivalized ,i had a fox take 1 of my rabbits once but i dont wish them all dead they have to survive as well as we do , look how we kill pigs for instance ,live and let live thats my moto
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gh
Full Member
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Post by gh on Dec 23, 2008 17:24:07 GMT
When the tories return, (and for all their so called 'sleaze' they were angels compared to this load of lying chancers) i expect the followiing sense to prevail. Hunting ban repealed or at least allowed under a licensed system with a legally enforced code of conduct. the smoking ban adjusted to allow for smoking areas set aside inside pubs/restaurants and the like. an end to being told what / how much to eat/drink/smoke. end of nanny state. end of political correctness. a return to competition in school sports etc. in fact if they undid everything this grotty load of self serving tossers have done in the last 11 yearrs, including the iraq adventure, we'd be a lot better off. Sorry Dave, BORIS FOR PM!
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Post by mandymoo on Dec 23, 2008 17:25:54 GMT
here he i miss propper hunting, drag hunting just don't cut it.
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Post by marymary on Dec 23, 2008 19:33:39 GMT
I had 7 hens last night inc 4 rare breeds who had lived happily in a safe enclosed area with a locked up hen house at night for 2.5yrs. This morning all that remains is 1 solitary ex battery hen all the others have been taken by a fox.....it looks as if he came and took one at a time all we have is a trail of feathers accross our land.The hens were our pets and we are totally gutted...I could cope if the little s**t just took one but 6!!! He had burrowed under the fence and then spent a good part of the night chewing thru hen house door....hope he tries it tonight as the fence and hut electrified....and my remaining hen locked in a stable.....I would happily break the law to get the fox concerned Im afraid ...In fact if anyone knows of a Man and Gun in North Shropshire ....... Apparently our neighbours have lost over 30 hens last week...all secured in their housing for the night. As far as I concerned a fox is no better than a rat ...vermin
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jemsyd
Full Member
Free To Dream :) Chase Me Charlie.
Posts: 537
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Post by jemsyd on Dec 23, 2008 19:52:51 GMT
Sorry to hear that marymary. have karma. <3
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Post by armada on Dec 23, 2008 20:34:04 GMT
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I would in no way try and force others to agree with me on such a complex issue. But to give my own opinion, I would argue that some form of population control of foxes IS required since they have no natural predators and can quickly become a pest both in urban and rural areas. Many farmers do have trouble with foxes taking livestock (lambs, chickens, etc) and this is one of the reasons why the farmers are happy for the hunt to go over their land. The alternatives methods of population control of foxes are both crueller to the fox (e.g. traps where the fox can lie injured for days and eventually die of starvation/thirst) and also are indiscriminate so there is no form of natural selection as there is with hunting. I am sure anyone who has ever been hunting knows that you do not catch 100% of the foxes which you pick up the scent for. You probably only ever get less than half if that, knowing that the fit and cunning will get away ! Some people then argue - well why make a sport out of it ? One answer is - why not ? Another more practical answer is to financially support the hunting. To pay the salaries of the hunts staff, to feed the hounds and the horses etc. Hunting has never had the intention of eliminating the fox entirely, but purely as a form of population control. So the predator will still exist within the food chain and serve its purpose within the countryside but just in a more controlled number. Lexy. Hear Hear, The fox is the top of the food chain of wild animals in this country and does need to be controlled, I've listened to and read the pro's and cons of this debate since I first starting hunting at 9 years old, well over 30 years ago. My opinions have never wavered. In fact my prime reason for wanting to ride in the first place was to be able to ride to hounds like my mother and for the good of the country side in general, and we've paid much money to the packs we have hunted with over the years for that privilege. As well as vermin control the hunt masters and servants do an awful lo of work to keep the countryside looking how we all would wish to see and enjoy its beauty. I've been spat on, threatened by balaclava'd idiots with fencing posts as weapons who dont even have the guts to identify themselves, followed home, had my horse attacked and my lorry vandalised by those who seem fit to call me a rich bit*h, and yell at me my days would be better spent getting a job, looking after my kids and going shopping instead of chasing poor defenceless foxes. Actually, I have a job, thats why I can afford to do this, what do you do? GIVE ME A BREAK. I contribute more to the efficient running in the countryside (my home) in one season than these jackasses do in a lifetime, and I dont go charging over private property unannounced and trash fencing or lay piano wires in woods in the process (the whips of the OSB&WK were victim to this a few years ago) and for so called self styled animal lovers to go and entice hounds onto a railway line where many were sliced into two pieces by the oncoming train just smacks of hypocrisy in my book (OSB&WK again over by Horsted Keynes, what a day). Hunting one day up at Warlingham in Surrey which is within the M25, a day or two before the ban came into force, we hunted country the day after a fox shoot, there were 30 dead foxes waiting for removal when we went in for our Beaufort tea, that had been shot the day before, I believe that day we made a kill of two. Post ban, who knows what the tally now is, possibly twice that amount. Who really is the loser here? The Foxhunting community or the Fox itself? Hunting has never been about annihilation, why would it? It would hunt itself out of existence in a very short time, hence, closed season. Badger and bear baiting, the day a fox is penned in a pit with a couple of hounds and a baying crowd, pull that card on me with pleasure. I will however say, I am not a fan of digging out, and if word gets back to the field a fox is to be dug, I say goodnight and go home, without fail. I am a firm believer in fair play, and if it has gone to ground, then I say leave it and cast afresh. It knows its country far better than any huntsman or hounds could hope to, and on that basis, deserves to run anther day. For those who have never experienced the carnage these animals leave in their wake, consider yourselves lucky. Young, but usually always under two week old lambs that are headless and eviscerated and not just one, perhaps up to three or four, chicken house carnage which is one of the worst, and this year I found four of my beloved call ducks all strewn to bits all over the property thanks to Reynard, and to b honest, by what we collected up not much if anything had been consumed, it was just killing for the sake of it. Disease carriers? You bet. The sooner the control is put back in the hands of those who really care about the welfare of the fox, then we can call ourselves a nation of animal lovers once more. Just to finish my rant, I remember being told of a farmer in Wales who kept finding foxes on his property that seemed to hanging around waiting to be fed. He called the hunt who brought hounds and they were dispatched. They discovered as time went on, that these foxes were all either neutered or spayed. A few enquiries led them to a LACS tame vet who was operating on these animals that had been brought in, and the LACS were then releasing them miles out of their own country and into an alien environment where they did not know how to survive. Animal rescue or animal cruelty?
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Milliesmum
H G Addict
COCKERP00S RULE!!!
Posts: 23,901
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Post by Milliesmum on Dec 23, 2008 20:40:10 GMT
Armada, have given you a karma for saying exactly what I feel in a much more eloquent fashion than I could ever hope to!
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Post by marymary on Dec 23, 2008 20:56:07 GMT
Armada have a Karma - Our fox is back judging by the noise the terriers are making so my partner outside ...sadly he doesnt have a gun.
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Post by overatdaknee on Dec 23, 2008 22:36:53 GMT
Armada, we too follow the OSB&WK and have seen how some express their views, foxes I think are just their excuse. Have a karma......................
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 24, 2008 20:20:09 GMT
Just to reply to pattendowns comment- im not having a go by the way!! The reason why foxes kill every thing when they get in your hen house is instinct, it's the same reason why your dog turns circles before it lays down and why your horse thinks a carrier bag will eat it........survival. IN oldy worldy days when it was b****y cold [think artic foxes, they still do this] a fox, on fiding an abundant food source, would kill every thing drag it away, it would freeze and hey presto......a larder for when food was scarce [think squirrels/acorns]. Unfortunatley for the nations chicken population it's hard wired in foxes to do this , same as pet dogs instinct is to chase and kill when sheep run. By the way im not an insufferable know it all, the vet i worked for told me this!!!
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Post by tamrik on Dec 27, 2008 17:10:45 GMT
there is another point that should also be raised here, and that is if the government can ban hunting, where will they stop? fishing? shooting?smoking in public places? I must admit I have supported the hunts more since some bloke in parliment told me I wasn't allowed to than I ever did before!!! the only thing I dont agree with is when the fox goes to ground then it should be fair play he was better today, I dont believe in sending in the terriers
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guest43
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Kick On!!!
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Post by guest43 on Dec 27, 2008 17:18:07 GMT
which hunt is the osb and wk?
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Post by overatdaknee on Dec 27, 2008 17:21:18 GMT
Old Surrey, Burstow and West Kent. Went to the Boxing Day meet at Penshurst yesterday and it was manic, never seen so many out showing support- the Police had to close a few roads due to volume of traffic!
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 27, 2008 21:55:15 GMT
I went to the Fitzwilliams boxing day meet at silton Peterborough, it was totaly heaving as usual, they have to close the one main road through the village, i dont know what happens to all the poo!!! In some ways the ban has done hunting good, there is more support than ever before, and the Fitz gets round the ban by using it's Golden Eagle, looking in todays paper [the Daily Mail is pro hunt] you wouldnt think there was a ban any way? It's just a shame it's so expensive- it's £55 for a day cap!
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Post by hectortheprotector on Dec 28, 2008 14:50:06 GMT
59% of the public say ban the ban
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Post by diadem on Dec 28, 2008 16:03:08 GMT
the troube with animals like the fox and mink is that they become frenzied and if in the henhouse thats why they kill all and just take one, they have blood lust. that s waht gets me about them, I can understand that the odd lamb could go missing but the sight of seeingn you rbeloved Moran chickens being just bheaded and dumped is enough to make anyone mad.
I dont believe in terrier men/blocking dens and such like as I see that as cheating. If a fit/strong fox has gone to ground, so be it, it s beaten the pack and so then the huntsmens hould move off and look for another scent. Otherwise I see nothing wrong with the role of the hunt.
It only got the ban cause of a vain, popularity hunting Blair and even he wished that it couldnt be carried out in the end. It was just another blinkered, uninformed stunt, by MPs and theyre cronies imposing theyre will on a rural lifestyle that really has got a part to play in the countryside.
I hear horror stories of foxes creeping into houses and also taking small pets, the more urbans there are the more missing pets there will be, wildfowl and other small birds and animals. What about them???
Ban the silly ban
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Post by beccyj1 on Dec 28, 2008 16:31:54 GMT
Oh dear oh dear!! The good old "should we - shouldn't we" debate!!!! I love reading peoples views on this sort of thing!!
The cruelty side of it - no I don't agree with it but yes I do love hunting in the older state!! It's more the ride for me though rather than the kill. To be honest, I don't mind if we catch anything or not, it's the ride (during the chase) that I go for!!
Yes I suppose it's quite cruel to think of the fox being chased but like mentioned earlier, it's the survival of the fittest out there in mother natures world - if you're not fit or injured in any way - you don't survive. Back to basics, that's the way I like it. Evolution at it's best!!
Ban the ban!!x
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jemsyd
Full Member
Free To Dream :) Chase Me Charlie.
Posts: 537
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Post by jemsyd on Dec 28, 2008 18:12:33 GMT
Oh dear oh dear!! The good old "should we - shouldn't we" debate!!!! I love reading peoples views on this sort of thing!! The cruelty side of it - no I don't agree with it but yes I do love hunting in the older state!! It's more the ride for me though rather than the kill. To be honest, I don't mind if we catch anything or not, it's the ride (during the chase) that I go for!! Yes I suppose it's quite cruel to think of the fox being chased but like mentioned earlier, it's the survival of the fittest out there in mother natures world - if you're not fit or injured in any way - you don't survive. Back to basics, that's the way I like it. Evolution at it's best!! Ban the ban!!x Exactly. Perfectly said! have karma x
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freya
Full Member
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Post by freya on Dec 29, 2008 18:31:11 GMT
What are your views on fox hunting? Should the ban be banned?BAN THE BAN! Im No fighter but i'll fight for what i love! The ban on foxhunting should most certainly stay. Some traditions are not acceptable and this is one of them. It is barbaric. Without a doubt. I dont understand why any reasonable thinking compassionate person would want it to be continued. ...i just hate animal cruelty, it is needless. Would your want your horse to be hunted down and then torn apart till its death just for the sake of tradition and that old silly saying 'for the love of the hunt'.....no i doubt that you would.
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Post by armada on Dec 29, 2008 19:09:57 GMT
What are your views on fox hunting? Should the ban be banned?BAN THE BAN! Im No fighter but i'll fight for what i love! The ban on foxhunting should most certainly stay. Some traditions are not acceptable and this is one of them. It is barbaric. Without a doubt. I dont understand why any reasonable thinking compassionate person would want it to be continued. ...i just hate animal cruelty, it is needless. Would your want your horse to be hunted down and then torn apart till its death just for the sake of tradition and that old silly saying 'for the love of the hunt'.....no i doubt that you would. How can you use a horse, a domestic animal and a 'flight' or prey animal as a comparison against a predator? There is no logic in that. A joy of the British countryside and efficient and effective vermin control, and the ludicrous and highly ineffective hunting ban are really the issue in most peoples minds. I relish a good hunting debate, and will listen to both sides as everyone is entitled to have their voice heard, but only if the other side has a credible argument and an educated viewpoint.
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 29, 2008 20:34:06 GMT
Freyer, every one is entitled to their view, im agaisnt animal testing so guess im a hypocrit!!! But hunting is preferable to having your legs blown off with a shotgun, which is whats happening. Foxes do need controlling, if you live in the country you would know that, it is mans fault they need to be controlled of course. Normally top predator numbers are controlled by amount of prey avaliable, but of course they dont have to worry with us feeding them!!! So im sorry their numbers do need to be kept in control. The world would be a better place with out man realy.........
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Post by bowditchblobs on Dec 29, 2008 20:37:12 GMT
By the way who nicked me karma??? Im entilted to my view you know!!!! Bar humbug!!!
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